I can really identify with points 1 through 4. I tend to have several books on my desk at once. The Programmer's Reference Guide's 6502 tables are in my favorite format, but that book has like 100 pages too many for the comb binding they inelegantly tried to cram it into, and it always feels like it's going to split open and go flying everywhere. But the thing I love about it is that you open it to the middle, and there's the instruction table in a readable (see point #3) format.
Meanwhile, I keep the original user guide around to have quick access to the color table (see point #1) and character tables, as well as a copy of Mapping the VIC.
I also have a nice collection of old 6502 books (all the Zaks and all the Leventhals, etc.), which have their own strengths. But I have to handle the Zakses and the Leventhals gingerly as their bindings have become brittle (see point #2).
So, I'm looking forward to seeing what you've come up with! I'll come back and say more after spending some time with your PDF.
I would recommend lulu.com for printing and selling your book, if you're still looking for a print-on-demand service. They produce nice quality prints, and have a good selection of bindings. Don't try to save money on the lighter paper, the heavier paper is way easier to thumb through for reference books. You might want to order proofs with different bindings, but the spiral seems ideal for this kind of thing.
VIC-20 Projects: wAx Assembler, TRBo: Turtle RescueBot, Helix Colony, Sub Med, Trolley Problem, Dungeon of Dance, ZEPTOPOLIS, MIDI KERNAL, The Archivist, Ed for Prophet-5
I had a quick look at the pdf and it seems a very useful document! I love it!
If I may give a small advice to marginally improve an already great document, it would be maybe useful in my opinion to have addresses and relevant data reported both in decimal and hex.
Schlowski wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:43 am
This is looking really great!
I'm with chysn on this one
it would be maybe useful in my opinion to have addresses and relevant data reported both in decimal and hex.
That wasn't me, but I was about to say something similar. However, the way things are arranged, it might be difficult to do that.
What I was thinking was that you could have a decimal version of the book, and a hex version of the book.
Also, don't forget the color code chart!
VIC-20 Projects: wAx Assembler, TRBo: Turtle RescueBot, Helix Colony, Sub Med, Trolley Problem, Dungeon of Dance, ZEPTOPOLIS, MIDI KERNAL, The Archivist, Ed for Prophet-5
chysn wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:59 am
What I was thinking was that you could have a decimal version of the book, and a hex version of the book.
Also, don't forget the color code chart!
What color codes did I leave out? I thought I had them all.
I thought about hex, but as a BASIC programmer, all I needed was a hex to dec conversion chart. I figured machine language coders might need much more than what’s here. It would clutter things to add hex to character codes, for example. Did the hex/MSB chart help?
Jeff-20 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:40 am
What color codes did I leave out? I thought I had them all.
Yeah, I missed the chart on page 11 initially.
I thought about hex, but as a BASIC programmer, all I needed was a hex to dec conversion chart. I figured machine language coders might need much more than what’s here. It would clutter things to add hex to character codes, for example. Did the hex/MSB chart help?
I think it's okay to lean into a resource for BASIC developers and not worry so much about hex.
VIC-20 Projects: wAx Assembler, TRBo: Turtle RescueBot, Helix Colony, Sub Med, Trolley Problem, Dungeon of Dance, ZEPTOPOLIS, MIDI KERNAL, The Archivist, Ed for Prophet-5
Vic20-Ian wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:15 pm
I really like your 3 line User Defined Character program.
Please could you add some more about User Defined Graphics?
e.g. Where to store the data in different ram configurations and how to protect them.
Thanks! Great idea. A lot of this was sourced or inspired by info from our wiki and forum. I hadn't even thought of all the different places in memory user defined characters could go... I'll add it.
Yes! Jeff! Very good collection you did. But I think you have to update some things to the current state of knowledge, especially for the things that we have clarified here on Denial, not always in agreement with one another.
opcode list should cover the undocumented ones too
Hexadecimal indication is mandatory! I say for myself that my thinking when programming is principally hexadecimal and I can't tell you which decimal address I'm reading or writing at the moment
The save@ function is dangerous!
As I said, you can find all the information about my advice in the forum topics. Unfortunately I didn't have time to look for these things for you, but you surely will find
Valid rule today as earlier: 1 Byte = 8 Bits
-._/classes instead of masses\_.-
Noizer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:40 pm
Yes! Jeff! Very good collection you did. But I think you have to update some things to the current state of knowledge, especially for the things that we have clarified here on Denial, not always in agreement with one another.
opcode list should cover the undocumented ones too
Hexadecimal indication is mandatory! I say for myself that my thinking when programming is principally hexadecimal and I can't tell you which decimal address I'm reading or writing at the moment
The save@ function is dangerous!
As I said, you can find all the information about my advice in the forum topics. Unfortunately I didn't have time to look for these things for you, but you surely will find
Thank you for the praise and feedback!
1. What opcodes did you notice were missing?
2. Are you requesting HEX as a machine language programmer? I'm making the book for myself. It will not be a VIC 20 bible in 64 pages. As a BASIC programmer, I thought the hexidecimal/MSB conversion chart and hex on the "memory index" would be enough. Would you want hex for things like PETSCII codes, for example? I'm worried I will clutter the page and compromise the large print I was going for,
3. Good catch! I'll remove it.
Jeff-20 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:40 am
I thought about hex, but as a BASIC programmer, all I needed was a hex to dec conversion chart. I figured machine language coders might need much more than what’s here.
I'd personally use quite often hex codes for memory locations, screen address and things like those (list of VIC registers...). It would be much less useful for data such as character codes for which the conversion table would be probably enough.
Last edited by DarwinNE on Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.