Help wanted getting a 40 column utility running

[Vic20-Ian]

Hi,

Can anyone help with working out how to get an undocumented 40 Column utility rom running?

I believe it is the Solidisk 40 Column rom. I dumped it with Simon Rowe's help and he got it running in Vice.

If anyone wants to archive this in Zimmers or elsewhere please pm me for a copy.

Simon found a start address Sys40960 but the cartridge does not seem to do much apart from display a table and reboot when you press return and reduce the free ram to 3071 bytes free.

Can anyone help get it running and figure it out?

Cheers
Ian

[srowe]

Running the SYS twice (!) results in this

The numbers look like the high byte of memory locations plus row/column counts and margins. I haven't worked out yet how to change the values.

I've begun to disassemble the code, that should start to explain how this is supposed to work.

[srowe]

I've pushed the code to my repo

https://eden.mose.org.uk/gitweb/?p=rom- ... sm;hb=HEAD

[srowe]

OK, so I've worked out how to set the various parameters

Code: Select all

SYS40960,nnn,nnn,nnn,nnn

not worked out what order they are in.

[Vic20-Ian]

Deleted - see next post

[Vic20-Ian]

Correction from earlier.

I think the string read is bugged. (n) indicate a number that seems to be ignored.

Simon suggested SYS40960,nnn,nnn,nnn,nnn

I found the following:

Sys40960, (n)nn, nn(n), nn,nn

e.g. numbering the digits Sys40960, (1)23, 45(6), 7 8, 9 10

Char 1 seem to be ignored and 2 and 3 pass to left margin so 122 or 222 is left margin 22, 100 = 0.

Char 4 5 (6) drive the Top margin so 200 = 20, 210 = 21, 215 = 21 etc. Char 6 seems to be ignored.

Char 7 & 8 are columns - beyond 32 seems to wrap so 40 displays 32 wide and cursor carries on 8 then new line which makes the display interestingly diagonal.

Char 9 and 10 are rows

Where chars 1 and 6 seem to be ignored.

I don't know if it expects extra input for the other items in the table. Can you see if it takes more than 4 parameters in the code?

If you do not reset it seems to get a bit confused.

E.g. if you set the row and column and press enter and then try and set again with a new 4 parameter sys call I think it is expecting chars 67 and 89 and the columns and rows change to unexpected values which are probably chars 1-5

I played with the joystick and it seems to only move cursor right and fire deletes.


Sys40960,222,222,22,22 will give left at 22, Top at 22, columns 22, rows 22

Sys40960,255,255,255,255 will give left 55, top 25, columns 25, rows 25 (not readable)

Sys40960,235,255,255,255 will give left 35, top 25, columns 25, rows 25 (registers checkable with sys40960)

[Vic20-Ian]

Simon found a new method of using this cartridge. Saves a bit of time.

Use the letters A through to W to set a screen size

e.g.

SYS40960,A

SYS40960,V

Still not got to 40 columns or a usable small font which I was hoping it was. Interesting digital archaeology though.

[Mike]

I had the opportunity to analyse the code of that utility already 2016, when another forum member found it in an EPROM of a Audio Computers port expander.

Still not got to 40 columns or a usable small font which I was hoping it was.

The VIC-I is not capable of displaying 40 characters per line in standard size to begin with. Also, the corresponding register ($9002, number of displayed columns) maxes out at 31 (NTSC) or 32 (PAL). In neither case, that number of characters will physically fit on screen.

Also, by a quick look over the code it was clear to me that all it would provide was a slightly more flexible screen editor with layouts other than the standard 22 columns by 23 rows (similar to what tokra did some time ago with Uber/Maxi-Edit). Nowhere in the code appear routines that would plot 4x8 pixel glyphs into a screen bitmap, and besides, that would require at least some extra RAM on the cartridge to keep the internal RAM free for the screen bitmap.

A little bit more technical background and less wishful thinking would have spared you some time, indeed.

[Vic20-Ian]

I had the opportunity to analyse the code of that utility already 2016, when another forum member found it in an EPROM of a Audio Computers port expander.

Still not got to 40 columns or a usable small font which I was hoping it was.

The VIC-I is not capable of displaying 40 characters per line in standard size to begin with. Also, the corresponding register ($9002, number of displayed columns) maxes out at 31 (NTSC) or 32 (PAL). In neither case, that number of characters will physically fit on screen.

Also, by a quick look over the code it was clear to me that all it would provide was a slightly more flexible screen editor with layouts other than the standard 22 columns by 23 rows (similar to what tokra did some time ago with Uber/Maxi-Edit). Nowhere in the code appear routines that would plot 4x8 pixel glyphs into a screen bitmap, and besides, that would require at least some extra RAM on the cartridge to keep the internal RAM free for the screen bitmap.

A little bit more technical background and less wishful thinking would have spared you some time, indeed.

Mike,

Why are the majority of your posts supercilious (hochnaesig) in tone? Were you the school bully or were you bullied and need to lash out now to compensate?

Just what is it that bugs you about other's posts so much that you behave this way? Would you like to explain then perhaps we could enjoy the forum rather than come here to be bashed by you. It is predictable and very boring, try a new program.

May I remind you again this is a forum for The Friendly Computer, maybe you didn't understand that part of the manual?

Back to the topic.

If the cart was labelled and advertised as a 40 Column Utility, it was a reasonable expectation that it would display 40 column text. 40 Columns is possible in software, I have a few utilities that do this.

I never mentioned standard size characters in 40 columns.

I never mentioned retaining memory as I can see the cartridge alters free memory in use.

In the interest for the history of the Vic20 and it's software, Simon and I are trying to figure out what this utility does and it's commands.

If you would like to help, please have a proper look at the disassembled version in Simon's repo above and contribute your superior understanding to complete the picture.

[Mike]

Ian,

Why are the majority of your posts supercilious (hochnaesig) in tone? Were you the school bully or were you bullied and need to lash out now to compensate?

Just what is it that bugs you about other's posts so much that you behave this way? Would you like to explain then perhaps we could enjoy the forum rather than come here to be bashed by you. It is predictable and very boring, try a new program.

May I remind you again this is a forum for The Friendly Computer, maybe you didn't understand that part of the manual?

If you can't stand being told the truth (here: "A little bit more technical background and less wishful thinking would have spared you some time, indeed."), don't try to drag down the discussion to personal attacks. You deliberately chose to ignore what I already told you in PM and your assumptions about the capabilities of the tool have shown to be ill-founded.

If the cart was labelled and advertised as a 40 Column Utility, it was a reasonable expectation that it would display 40 column text. 40 Columns is possible in software, I have a few utilities that do this.

I *wrote* such utilities myself, and I *know* what has to be inside to accomplish this. Again, nothing of this is present in the code.

I never mentioned standard size characters in 40 columns.

I never mentioned retaining memory as I can see the cartridge alters free memory in use.

40 columns without extra RAM (and over the whole screen) would require the use of standard size characters. As I said, the VIC-I can't do this. Doing 40 columns with 4x8 pixel glyphs needs extra RAM so the internal RAM can be fully used for a screen bitmap. All user data (BASIC programs, etc.) then would reside in the extra RAM. There is no extra RAM with this cartridge, and no routines inside that handle a bitmap. Just code derived from the screen editor in the KERNAL, with the ability to handle a flexible number of columns and rows. Nothing more.

It only needs a cursory glance over the code and the necessary technical background to come to these conclusions.

In the interest for the history of the Vic20 and it's software, Simon and I are trying to figure out what this utility does and it's commands.

Above you find my assessment.

If you would like to help, please have a proper look at the disassembled version in Simon's repo above and contribute your superior understanding to complete the picture.

As I said, I already did.

Michael

[Vic20-Ian]

Mike,

I read your PM and the referenced thread and found that it ended with a cursory assessment and no knowledge of how to operate the utility beyond the basic SYS call either in the old thread or this one.

What I shared in my posts was more about how to get it working and some problems with the parameter entry.

Simon and I have figured out some ways to get it to function in part for those that may be interested.

The advert in a magazine lists from the era lists it as a 40 column utility. The label on the Eprom lists it as 40C.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9921#p111227

EDIT - The inside back cover og Your Computer March 1983 Vol 3 No. 3 States

A 40 column rom: This will be available towards mid February. It will enhance the Vic display up to 25 lines per 40 Columns and offer the facility of adding a second processor (Intel 8088)

40 Column Rom advance information: 8K bytes. Can communicate with 2nd processor via 2k dual port Ram and interrupt.

The 40 Column rom was later advertised at £10 as an addition to the SRC16 Cartridge.

END OF EDIT

I expressed my disappointment that it was not yet displaying 40 columns as advertised and that it did not seem to have a font as I thought it would have from experience with SuperScreen. Super Screen displays 40 Columns and uses 3k of memory (Programmed for 8k and leaves 5k free)

Some of your thinking about the utility seems a little constrained. Just because the Eprom image is on a simple cartridge with no ram as I purchased it does not mean it cannot be used with ram expansion in e.g. the Special Cartridge by Audio Computers with Ram and Eprom carrier.

There is nothing to say that this cartridge was intended for unexpanded Vic20 or that it should operate alone. It operates somewhat and leaves reduced memory available. Perhaps it shipped with tape software to load different glyph character sets and the rom utility was to resize the screen.

I have put this thread up to explore that and understand what it was and why it was listed as a 40 Column utility.

If you wish to contribute then do but if you wish you launch personal comment about people's ability then expect to be called out and asked why you act as a bully.

[Vic20-Ian]

The manual for the 40 Column rom commonly found in Special Cartridges by Audio Computers or Solidisk.

Solidisk 40 Column Rom.zip

(3.81 MiB) Downloaded 127 times

[JonBrawn]

Well, that's definitely not what I was expecting! Not just a ROM image then, you need a cartridge with both the ROM and a bunch of RAM for this to work. Do we know if it sorts out the baked-in screen width of 22 that the KERNAL uses when you scroll down a line?

[Vic20-Ian]

Well, that's definitely not what I was expecting! Not just a ROM image then, you need a cartridge with both the ROM and a bunch of RAM for this to work. Do we know if it sorts out the baked-in screen width of 22 that the KERNAL uses when you scroll down a line?

Hi Jon,

I am happy to fire it up and try something if you have a test in mind.

If you have ability to create the rom the image, it is available.

Best regards,
Ian

[doug_in_nc]

Ian, where can we find the image? It would be cool to create a ROM+RAM cartridge with it in. I guess that must have been how it was sold back in the day

Hi Jon,

I am happy to fire it up and try something if you have a test in mind.

If you have ability to create the rom the image, it is available.

Best regards,
Ian