To soft-load or not to soft-load (split/OT from: My first Cartridge...)

[Mike]

Also @Robbie:

I would prefer the solution with SMART RAM + MINIMON2020 (@Location $9800), so that all of the "standard" RAM is available, in total 35K.

As much as I appreciate your promotion for MINIMON (also in other threads), I would like to stress out that soft-loading MINIMON on other cartridges misses out on some important aspects of the MINIMON cartridge hardware:

• The monitor is immediately available as you turn on the VIC-20. You do not need to load it first.
• The MINIMON cartridge already provides the necessary memory range to host the monitor on its own. Any standard RAM cartridge can be operated together with the MINIMON cartridge, by putting the other cartridge into the slave cartridge slot. That also means the other cartridge does not need to provide RAM in I/Ox itself.
• It is not possible to soft-load MINIMON into certain cartridges like Mega-Cart or FE3, as these don't provide uncommitted RAM over the whole I/Ox range. Yet, the MINIMON cartridge allows their continued use, again as slave cartridges.
• There's a revamped version of the MINIMON cartridge in the works, which will replace the BLK5 inhibit jumper by a more versatile reset button (see the test circuit here). You won't get that with your run-of-the-mill RAM expansion.

If you own the hardware, you can always create a software image of MINIMON for yourself with the S command, but I won't do a software-only release.

[Noizer]

@ Mike: would you mean minimon softimage cannot run on 9800‘ location of Smartram?! Even not a special for that purpose released version?

[Mike]

@ Mike: would you mean minimon softimage cannot run on 9800‘ location of Smartram?!

Check my list above carefully. I explicitly mentioned Mega-Cart and FE3 as not being capable of soft-loading an image of the MINIMON firmware as they do not provide uncommitted RAM over the whole I/O area. There are other cartridges which supply RAM in I/Ox - as Ultimem and others do -, but you will miss out on the other features provided by the MINIMON cartridge hardware.

Even not a special for that purpose released version?

There won't be any other version of MINIMON than the one released with the MINIMON cartridge.

If you actually mean MCes' SMART RAM with "special for that purpose released": as far as I am concerned, this is just another run-of-the-mill RAM expansion. That doesn't mean anything bad, MINIMON will run on it, but to re-phrase my list above:

• there's no support for a slave cartridge,
• there's no versatile reset button,
• soft-loading MINIMON means it's not there right from the start,
• you might not have loaded it, when you realize you'd better had done that before,
• load ",8,1" means you normally have to issue a NEW to correct the BASIC pointers,
• there's no L command available right from start-up which allows to load machine code programs without messing up the BASIC pointers.
• etc. pp.

In essence: you can soft-load the MINIMON firmware on other cartridge hardware, yes, provided the other cartridge supplies full RAM in I/Ox, but the extra functions of the MINIMON cartridge won't come along.

[chysn]

Keep in mind that there's a 2K version of wAx as well. Once I get my SmartRAM cartridge, I plan to make some additional refinements and update the documentation. But it covers a lot of ground.

[Noizer]

That doesn't mean anything bad, MINIMON will run on it, but to re-phrase my list above:...

All of these presumed disadvantages you mentioned do not matter to me, it would be enough for me as I have described it, possibly for others too

[Mike]

All of these presumed disadvantages you mentioned do not matter to me, it would be enough for me as I have described it, [...]

And again, I won't do a software-only release of MINIMON. Simple as that.

[Noizer]

OK

[chysn]

If the MINIMON cartridge is plugged in, and then a SmartRAM cartridge is plugged into the MINIMON cartridge, will the VIC-20 see the RAM at $9800 or the MINIMON ROM?

[Mike]

If the MINIMON cartridge is plugged in, and then a SmartRAM cartridge is plugged into the MINIMON cartridge, will the VIC-20 see the RAM at $9800 or the MINIMON ROM?

See here:



When the sliding switch SW1 - that one between the reset button and the two jumpers - points towards the VIC-20, then MINIMON (or whatever else is installed in the ZIF socket) is visible in $9800..$9FFF. When SW1 points towards the slave cartridge, whatever the slave cartridge has in I/Ox will be visible for the VIC-20. In the latter case, the I/Ox select signals are pass-through.

The hardware has been crafted judiciously, so SW1 can be changed while the VIC-20 is switched on! Furthermore, those high speed select signals do not go over mechanical contacts, rather the two logic chips in the lower half of the PCB guarantee the integrity of the signals.

Granted, you need to have a good idea when a slave cartridge might need access to its own registers, but you can always position SW1 as necessary: for example, with Mega-Cart as slave cartridge, you would have SW1 point towards MC at power-on or MC reset, so the menu can access the MC hardware registers and NV-RAM in I/Ox, but you can switch SW1 to MINIMON as soon as you leave the Mega-Cart menu and are in the BASIC start-up screen.

[Vic20-Ian]

All of these presumed disadvantages you mentioned do not matter to me, it would be enough for me as I have described it, [...]

And again, I won't do a software-only release of MINIMON. Simple as that.

At some point won't it be released into the wild like all Vic20 Cartridges and this point may become moot unless you have super copy protection Mike.

It is usually better to meet the voice of the customer rather than dictate the solution...although Henry Ford had some success last century with "any colour as long as it is black".

[Mike]

I had not thought it would be necessary to set straight these points, but then:

At some point won't it be released into the wild like all Vic20 Cartridges and this point may become moot unless you have super copy protection Mike.

First of all, there is no copy protection included with the MINIMON firmware, Vic20-Ian. As I already wrote, the tool brings its own command set with it to produce an image of the cartridge firmware.

It is usually better to meet the voice of the customer rather than dictate the solution...although Henry Ford had some success last century with "any colour as long as it is black".

It is entirely my choice in what form the product is sold. If the factual arguments I brought forward regarding the cartridge hardware (culminating to: "[with soft-loading] the extra functions of the MINIMON cartridge won't come along") do not persuade someone to buy the cartridge, fine - there is plenty of alternatives around to choose from.

[Robbie]

To soft-load or not to soft-load?

Having messed with wAx over the last couple of days, I think the best way to maximise available RAM for that software is to soft-load it.

With a 35kB RAM expansion and wAx installed at BLK5, I seem to have:
3kB @ RAM1-3
24kB @ BLK1-3
4kB @ BLK5 (above the wAx code)

The BLK5 location is useful as it gives me that big 24kB block in one chunk.

The cartridge version is fast and easy, but it means I lose access to the whole block which contains wAx, whereas the soft version lets me still use the upper half of its 8kB block as RAM.

I really like the idea of a slave cartridge slot for Minimon, but I have to confess that I haven't had a look into how Minimon works yet... I've got my head down working on defining variables in wAx at the moment.

[Mike]

Hi, Robbie,

I really like the idea of a slave cartridge slot for Minimon, but I have to confess that I haven't had a look into how Minimon works yet...

MINIMON is a machine language monitor very similar to VICMON or HESMON. Its main distinctive feature is, that it only needs 2 KB memory, yet it retains most of the commands of VICMON and HESMON. These include assembly and disassembly of 65xx instructions. Its small size allows it to be placed into yet another available address slot at $9800..$9FFF. This is the I/O block normally reserved for cartridge hardware. Usually, registers of I/O chips go there.

The MINIMON cartridge puts the contents of either an EPROM, EEPROM or a RAM chip into the I/O block, and a switch (and some logic ICs) allows to choose between either that memory chip or whatever the slave cartridge puts there. All other address ranges (RAM1..3, BLK1..3 and BLK5) remain fully usable for RAM or ROM expansion and the MINIMON cartridge acts as full pass-through to the slave cartridge here.

I've put a short list of the available commands in one post in the MINIMON thread (link).

Greetings,

Michael


P.S. please note: MINIMON and wAx - even though broadly similar - are two separate projects. There also exists a 2 KB version of wAx, which could also be put into $9800..$9FFF like MINIMON, but both tools provide a non-overlapping set of features and also implement them in a different way - MINIMON has an own command line parser, wAx inserts itself as wedge into the BASIC interpreter.

[Robbie]

Please count me in for a cart Mike, though you might need to dig me out of some holes when I get stuff wrong!

[Mike]

Hi, Robbie,

Please count me in for a cart Mike, [...]

thank you for your interest. The re-designed version of the cartridge is still under development. As soon as the cartridge is available for purchase, I'll post a link in the main thread.

[...] though you might need to dig me out of some holes when I get stuff wrong!

No worries.