Exactly how NOT to make a multicart for the C64

[Mike]

Hi all

Please keep the debate friendly and constructive, do you even know how tiresome this is to follow?

In behalf of our community “please behave boys”.

Thanks for the more considerate moderation compared to the 20Q programming thread I was contributing to that was expunged in a digital version of Fa[h]renheit 451 with no warning

Peter and I know about your "disappointment" how we handled that case, no need to remind us of this, thank you.

This is a different case here, other people involved, and Peter and I decided to handle it in a different way.

Michael

[Vic20-Ian]

Fa[h]renheit

Apologies to Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (1686–1736), corrected, no idea why I didn't type the 'h' especially being a Queen fan

[Noizer]

Fine, can we finally concentrate on the essentials?

[eslapion]

This is a different case here, other people involved, and Peter and I decided to handle it in a different way.

Michael

A little lesson in neurolingistic is needed here. I'll try to play Noam Chomsky for a bit even though I know perfectly well I have nowhere near his talent in that field.

The burden of complexity

What's really at stake here is the fact some people have absolutely no knowledge of the true electrical engineering behind both legacy digital systems and modern ones. The shallow and lazy approach and very emotionally comforting one is to simply deny this level of complexity even exist.

This effectively puts the burden on the people defending correct and complete facts to minutely detail this complexity and Vic-20-Ian did go through the exercice concerning gold plating on edge connectors and his post was simply ignored.

The deniers then have the luxury to demand facts proving said complexity is more than simply imaginary as we can see here...

This effectively puts the burden on honest people who defend technical truth and accuracy to more or less give a university course in a thread of a public forum which would present said level of details and complexity in a manner deemed acceptable by the very people who deny it's existence.

It's not my job to do that and this is proof the moderators aren't doing their job. The moderators should have the responsibility to make sure scientific facts prevail and it shouldn't be the responsibility of members who may or may not have various levels of academic proficiency to defend what they know is true and to be effectively charged with the task of copying or vulgarizing the content of various scholar courses content. All this energy and effort, as we saw with Vic-20-Ian's post, at the risk of simply getting ignored.

IMHO, this is a way for the ignorant to effectively put knowledgeable people at their service and at the service of their demagogic hypersimplification of reality.

Now, MCes repeats that I was banned from a forum as an argument to defend his position. By doing that, he doesn't realize he's bringing forward that the ignorants have won but smart people noticed and the consequence, a totally unexpected one I have to admit, is that the products I make and sell have become incredibly popular. In other words, the banning backfired big time and this means there is some hope - some people do see the truth, support and defend it.

I was banned from Lemon64 because I did take the time and care to dispel a few dozens of technical myths posted on that forum by a small group of individuals. They were convinced I couldn't do it but I did and this insulted them. Once I was banned, Thomas 'Skoe' Giesel left a long post in which he supported everything I said.

To the people who manage Denial, I have to say that as long as you let shallow and intellectually lazy people bully knowledgeable people into silence, great projects are impossible here.

Please keep the debate friendly and constructive, do you even know how tiresome this is to follow?

In behalf of our community “please behave boys”.

I'm sorry to have to say this but this type of reaction greatly favors the bully. It's incredibly easy to politely post things that are technically completely false and it is perfectly legitimate to be very offended when you spent years learning the truth in every intricate details and see yourself bulldozed down by an effective demagogue.

Now comes the crunch question: before writing your post here, did you at least try to contact the seller and point out to him the issues with using HASL for the edge connector and choosing HC for the logic chips (backing up your complaint about both by citing appropriate sources)?

The previous 90 posts in this thread do constitute an answer to your question, I believe.

[groepaz]

[MCes]

Is Mr. eslapion so kindle to post pics of PCB gerber view of the SARUMAN TED version V1.2, please?
Thanks

[Mike]

We had a few days of welcome repose here, but alas ...

Is Mr. eslapion so kindle to post pics of PCB gerber view of the SARUMAN TED version V1.2, please?
Thanks

This is completely off-topic and only serves to continue the flaming here. STOP THIS!

[...]

Neither is your lengthy post going to bring any new insight into the matter. This is not a thread about any (even if only perceived) shortcomings of the moderation crew in Denial.

You both, stop the bitching and do something constructive!

[Vic20-Ian]

I think the thread is exhausted now.

Evidence of the issue was presented and there is not much to add.

I propose this thread be closed, do the main contributors agree?

[MCes]

Although Eslapion's post (Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:57 pm) is full of lies and half-truths,
rather than answering him, I preferred to have a few laughs with those who tried to dampen this thread.
I think my effort is clearly visible.
After a week ( Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:44 am ) Mr. Eslapion tries again to hit me with the rhetoric of his delusions of omnipotence .....
If I stop and after I will be hit: than my resumption of the discussion will be a consequence, so why ask me if I agree to stop?

Many of the posts in this thread could be considered OT,
because the theme is about the errors (real or imaginary) to avoid when developing projects.
The drawings I asked for can clarify the doubts generated by some photos already published.
And this is perfectly the theme with which Eslapion opened the thread:Just like (NOT) make a project.
At least I have the strength of my ideas to talk about it with the person concerned,
and not by opening a thread where the person that is the target of spitting is not present.

[eslapion]

Although Eslapion's post (Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:57 pm) is full of lies and half-truths,

Prove it...

[MCeslapion]

Mom, Dad... stop ...

[eslapion]

Although Eslapion's post (Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:57 pm) is full of lies and half-truths,
rather than answering him, I preferred to have a few laughs with those who tried to dampen this thread.
I think my effort is clearly visible.
After a week ( Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:44 am ) Mr. Eslapion tries again to hit me with the rhetoric of his delusions of omnipotence .....
If I stop and after I will be hit: than my resumption of the discussion will be a consequence, so why ask me if I agree to stop?

Many of the posts in this thread could be considered OT,
because the theme is about the errors (real or imaginary) to avoid when developing projects.
The drawings I asked for can clarify the doubts generated by some photos already published.
And this is perfectly the theme with which Eslapion opened the thread:Just like (NOT) make a project.
At least I have the strength of my ideas to talk about it with the person concerned,
and not by opening a thread where the person that is the target of spitting is not present.

Can you understand this : http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bul ... f=5&t=9774
?

I think not.

Proof: http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bul ... &start=240

To you, it's complicated so it doesn't exist... (or it's lies, half truths and I have delusions of omnipotence, etc...)

I ask to anyone else, can you understand the above thread about not using fast logic ICs with old/slow digital systems or am I what MCes says I am ?

[MCes]

Although Eslapion's post (Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:57 pm) is full of lies and half-truths,

Prove it...

I ask to others: I have to stop or to prove it?
For the answer (in words and deeds) I will wait one day, then I will act accordingly.

Other waiting answers:
--The list of who had it's VIC 20 C64 connector damaged by the HASL cartridge finishing (or equivalent evidences).
--The pics of the gerber view of SARUMAN-TED V1.2

This is not the time to bluff:
show specific evidence or shut up, this thread is so long and noisy because only smoke has been shown to support the thread title thesis!

[eslapion]

--The pics of the gerber view of SARUMAN-TED V1.2

This is not the time to bluff:
show specific evidence or shut up, this thread is so long and noisy because only smoke has been shown to support the thread title thesis!

This product had a design flaw and all clients were REFUNDED. Because unlike you, I take RESPONSIBILITY for my mistakes.

You can't understand why it's a mistake to use fast logic ICs with 1MHz 8 bit computers and you also proved you can't make the difference between a logic IC glitch - it's called a 'static hazard' if you ever study this stuff in a reputable institution.

and RF noise.

Your own posts to prove it : http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bul ... &start=241

Keep defending your sloppy, arrogant and intellectually lazy attitude.

[MCes]

Do not run away!
pending questions:
--The list of who had it's VIC 20 C64 connector damaged by the HASL cartridge finishing (or equivalent evidences).
--The pics of the gerber view of SARUMAN-TED V1.2

This is not the time to bluff:
show specific evidence or shut up, this thread is so long and noisy because only smoke has been shown to support the thread title thesis!

Sidenote (from this thread):

I also believe that it is a good design rule to use HCT on these machines, as it is a good design rule not to boost the chip power supplies, as you do, even beyond the maximum allowed by the manufacturer data.
With the levels of the C64 chips, the Australian chips will also work, of course I would have used HCT to maintain greater immunity from noise, but it is a design choice that remains within the operating limits of the chips themselves.

And now I take the 24-hour break as promised, then we'll see