Denial

Is it just me that thinks the C64 looks way better with the VIC20 chargen ROM?

For that matter, the VIC looks much better with the C64 chargen too.

Maybe I will swap them!

It's just you
The C64 looks better but the VIC looks much worse, IMO.
Of course on a TV the C64 would be less readable...

I am thinking with a modern TV and a composite connection (no RF) the VIC20 chargen is the better choice.
Since I have a few VICs I may 'borrow' the chargen from one of them for my C64.

Try the vic-20 chars on a real c64 and you will understand why they changed it.

Will try it and see. My plasma TV gets a much better picture from composite input than my old CRT did from the RF signal back in 1982! I think for TVs using the modulator you are probably tight that the C64 needed those fat characters to avoid colour fringing. I really don't like the C64 font and would much prefer if it were more VIC-like!

As I understand it, Japanese versions of the C64 had the VIC-20 font (plus some Japanese characters similar to VIC-1001.) They also had the white on cyan screen colours of the VIC-20.

Bobbi wrote: As I understand it, Japanese versions of the C64 had the VIC-20 font (plus some Japanese characters similar to VIC-1001.) They also had the white on cyan screen colours of the VIC-20.

I didn't know that. The SX-64 also has the Vic-20 colors.

Bobbi wrote:Maybe I will swap them!

It won't work!

There is something really itchy about the 2332 ROMs used to generate the characters on the VIC and 64. There is a secondary chip select line on them (pin 21).

On the C64, it is active high and just tied to +5V but on the VIC-20, it is active low and it is used in a very specific way so it can't just be tied to the ground or you'll cause bus conflicts.

That's why I can't use my MCM68764/MCM68766 EPROMs to make replacement character generators for the VIC but there's no problem with the C64.

I just tried it and you are quite right!! Doesn't work at all. Characters look like random scuzz with the VIC-20 chargen.

Kweepa wrote:It's just you
The C64 looks better but the VIC looks much worse, IMO.
Of course on a TV the C64 would be less readable...

Yep same opinion here, I guess it's okay​ only in x64.

With an adapter socket, a 2732 can be used as replacement character ROM, see the thread "Request help on replacing 2332 4Kx8 Char ROM -> Fixing a VIC".

However, the character ROM is not only used by VIC to display text screens with the standard font - the CPU also has access and there actually exist quite a few programs that show unexpected behaviour when the contents of the character ROM are changed from the default.

If you want to use the C64 character set on a VIC-20, or vice versa, you always have the option to use a copy in RAM for that.

Mike wrote:With an adapter socket, a 2732 can be used as replacement character ROM, ...

Correct.

See pinouts here: (where ROM is the pinout of the 2332)

The socket is not very complicated, swapping pins 18 and 21 does the job.

Added edit: the C64 CG ROM has a custom characteristic, the CS2 (pin 21) is active high.