VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
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- pixel
- Vic 20 Scientist
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VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
I picked the colors from http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=13904.0 and made VPL files of them.
PAL: http://hugbox.org/pixel/external/denial ... ic-pal.vpl
NTSC: http://hugbox.org/pixel/external/denial ... c-ntsc.vpl
They look quite nice without CRT emulation, saving you CPU time. But when I turn on CRT emulation – now THAT's the kind of color suckage that makes my heart jump in delight.
What do you think?
PAL: http://hugbox.org/pixel/external/denial ... ic-pal.vpl
NTSC: http://hugbox.org/pixel/external/denial ... c-ntsc.vpl
They look quite nice without CRT emulation, saving you CPU time. But when I turn on CRT emulation – now THAT's the kind of color suckage that makes my heart jump in delight.
What do you think?
A man without talent or ambition is most easily pleased. Others set his path and he is content.
https://github.com/SvenMichaelKlose
https://github.com/SvenMichaelKlose
Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
but... I own 4 Vic-20s and all of them differ in colors. The biggest difference is between CR and non-CR. At least with mine.
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
and also depends how you set the controls on the TV/monitor
Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
And now we've come full circle The files originated here. If I remember correctly they are based on my VIC that Mike S-Video-modded for me and my or daraktx's NTSC-VIC.pixel wrote:I picked the colors from http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=13904.0 and made VPL files of them.
PAL: http://hugbox.org/pixel/external/denial ... ic-pal.vpl
NTSC: http://hugbox.org/pixel/external/denial ... c-ntsc.vpl
Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
i'm not a big fan of hand-tuned RGB palettes for emulators - for the reasons already mentioned. another important reason is that the CBM machines do not produce RGB colors at all, they output either YUV (PAL) or YIQ (NTSC) and the color decoding process in the monitor plays an important role on what colors you actually see (and if you dont have a calibrated high quality video monitor, such as a sony-pvm, comparing emulator output to it is a bit pointless). all of that makes it pretty much impossible to create "the correct palette". thats why the while CRT emulation stuff in VICE was introduced, it actually allows to generate proper colors on the fly - the only problem is that noone came up with exact measurements for the VIC-1 color angles yet.
that said, imho the estimated defaults in current VICE are not *that* far off anyway:
(PAL defaults with CRT emulation) (the above palette without CRT emulation)
(the underlayed screenshot comes from mike's colour-tester post, i am just hoping it came from a real VIC)
that said, imho the estimated defaults in current VICE are not *that* far off anyway:
(PAL defaults with CRT emulation) (the above palette without CRT emulation)
(the underlayed screenshot comes from mike's colour-tester post, i am just hoping it came from a real VIC)
I'm just a Software Guy who has no Idea how the Hardware works. Don't listen to me.
Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
I am pretty sure those screenshots came from Mike's favorite VICE-version back then (1.22)? Mike himself could probably confirm.(the underlayed screenshot comes from mike's colour-tester post, i am just hoping it came from a real VIC)
However about a year ago I recorded video from both my PAL- and NTSC-VIC-20 (both S-Video-modded) and recorded this with my DVD-recorder (Pioneer DVR-433). This is probably better than a photograph off a monitor and also the same device used for both videos:
http://www.tokra.de/vic/colourtest/
Maybe this helps in creating a "better" palette? (not that I'm unhappy with the current one)
Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
Sorry to be pedantic, but isn't a DVD recorder just an analogue video decoder + frame grabber, so unless it is a calibrated/broadcast-quality model ,it's likely to suffer the same variances as other methods?
- pixel
- Vic 20 Scientist
- Posts: 1374
- Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:56 am
- Website: http://hugbox.org/
- Location: Berlin, Germany
- Occupation: Pan–galactic shaman
Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
I was very unhappy with the non-CRT colors. In VICE as well as in my own stuff which, of course, has no CRT emulation. These palettes did the trick for me. That's the point I wanted to stress really.
Maybe they are a good alternative for VICE users who can't use CRT emulation, maybe on mobile or slow devices? Wouldn't want the current VICE palettes to go away. I'm aware that they're technically quite accurate and I like that, too.
Maybe they are a good alternative for VICE users who can't use CRT emulation, maybe on mobile or slow devices? Wouldn't want the current VICE palettes to go away. I'm aware that they're technically quite accurate and I like that, too.
A man without talent or ambition is most easily pleased. Others set his path and he is content.
https://github.com/SvenMichaelKlose
https://github.com/SvenMichaelKlose
Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
unfortunately, yes. its still somewhat better than making photos from a monitor though (since it takes the camera sensor out of the equatation, which often have terrible colour accuracy unless its a very expensive device)Sorry to be pedantic, but isn't a DVD recorder just an analogue video decoder + frame grabber, so unless it is a calibrated/broadcast-quality model ,it's likely to suffer the same variances as other methods?
did you try the VICE build i linked above? if you just disable CRT emulation and keep the default "internal" palette, the colors shouldnt be all that different (and you can still adjust them to your preference using the "CRT" controls)I was very unhappy with the non-CRT colors.
I'm just a Software Guy who has no Idea how the Hardware works. Don't listen to me.
- pixel
- Vic 20 Scientist
- Posts: 1374
- Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:56 am
- Website: http://hugbox.org/
- Location: Berlin, Germany
- Occupation: Pan–galactic shaman
Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
Oh, well, that did the trick on VICE with no CRT as well. One can't see if the color palette is set to "internal" or "default", btw. Mine was set to "default". m(groepaz wrote:did you try the VICE build i linked above? if you just disable CRT emulation and keep the default "internal" palette, the colors shouldnt be all that different (and you can still adjust them to your preference using the "CRT" controls)
A man without talent or ambition is most easily pleased. Others set his path and he is content.
https://github.com/SvenMichaelKlose
https://github.com/SvenMichaelKlose
Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
Unfortunately, you probably won't see the same colors on your LCD monitor because the gamut is not sufficient in most cases to cover the range of a CRT and the NTSC or PAL YUV color ranges. I know because I have done the math and they have been out of range for the RGB values. So much of it really comes down to your personal taste - which is a great thing because everyone remembers it differently. I really enjoy the colorful look of the VIC-20 because it is based on the YUV color wheel. I'll have to put up my colors sometime.
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Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
I should add that when I plug my VIC-20 into my HDTV, it looks great, but I remember the colors being more vivid when I had an old 13" CRT a long time ago.
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Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
plasma or LCD ?
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Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
LED HDTV. I bet it would look amazing on an OLED.
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Re: VICE palette files with colors as seen on real machines
pushing this up once again...
i have recently added proper color generation and decoding for NTSC/YIQ to VICE, and as a result now at least for C64 the NTSC colors are pretty much correct. I also added Mikes VIC20 palettes (i hope you dont mind ) .... however i am not entirely convinced by the VIC20 colors produced by the CRT emulation in NTSC with internal color generation - could someone from NTSC land please check out a recent snapshot and comment on it? somehow i am suspecting that, other than with the VIC-II, there is actually a different color generation circuit in the NTSC and PAL VICs (which would explain the difference).
i have recently added proper color generation and decoding for NTSC/YIQ to VICE, and as a result now at least for C64 the NTSC colors are pretty much correct. I also added Mikes VIC20 palettes (i hope you dont mind ) .... however i am not entirely convinced by the VIC20 colors produced by the CRT emulation in NTSC with internal color generation - could someone from NTSC land please check out a recent snapshot and comment on it? somehow i am suspecting that, other than with the VIC-II, there is actually a different color generation circuit in the NTSC and PAL VICs (which would explain the difference).
I'm just a Software Guy who has no Idea how the Hardware works. Don't listen to me.