Wizard of Wor for VIC-20 FOUND!

6502dude · Post by **6502dude** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:13 pm

I went through my box of Vic-20 cart PCBs tonight and confirmed / added additional MOS Rom numbers to this listing:

MOS ROM Number Cartridge Name Cart ID
------------------------------------------------------------------------
325315-01 Programmers Aid Cartridge Vic-1212
325316-01 Machine Language Monitor Vic-1213
325310-02 Avenger (Vic Avenger) Vic-1901
325304-02 Star Battle Vic-1902
325312-01 (also rev 02) Slot (Super Slot) Vic-1904
325307-02 Jelly Monsters Vic-1905
325306-01 (also Rev 02) Alien (Super Alien) Vic-1906
325308-01 (also Rev 02) Jupiter Lander Vic-1907
325311-01 (also Rev 02) Poker (Draw Poker) Vic-1908
325309-02 Midnight Drive (Road Race) Vic-1909
901252-01 Radar Rat Race Vic-1910
901266-01 The Sky Is Falling VIC-1911
901264-01 Mole Attack VIC-1912
901270-01 Raid on Fort Knox VIC-1913
325335-01 or 901254-01 + 901255-01 Adventure Land VIC-1914
325336-01 or 901256-01 + 901257-01 Pirate's Cove VIC-1915
325337-01 or 901258-01 + 901259-01 Mission Impossible VIC-1916
325339-01 or 901262-01 + 901263-01 The Count VIC-1917
325338-01 or 901260-01 + 901261-01 Voodoo Castle VIC-1918
901253-01 Sargon II Chess VIC-1919
901271-01 + 901272-01 (also Rev 02) Pinball Spectacular VIC-1920
901265-01 Super Smash VIC-1921
901273-01 Cosmic Cruncher VIC-1922
901280-01 Gorf VIC-1923
901269-01 Omega Race VIC-1924
901279-01 Money Wars VIC-1925
901281-01 Menagerie VIC-1926
901283-01 Cosmic Jailbreak VIC-1927
901284-01 Home Babysitter VIC-1928
901290-01 Personal Finance VIC-1929
901285-01 Visible Solar System VIC-1930
901277-01 Clowns VIC-1931
901282-01 Garden Wars VIC-1932
901274-01 Speed Math & Bingo Math VIC-1933
325343-01 Commodore Artist VIC-1935
901278-01 Sea Wolf VIC-1937
901303-01 Tooth Invaders VIC-1938
901292-01 Star Post VIC-1939

It can be downloaded in .xlsx format from:
http://www.6502dude.com/cbm/vic20/carts ... mbers.xlsx

Hopefully this will help identify suspect cartridges in the future.

Vic20-Ian · Post by **Vic20-Ian** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:41 pm

Boray wrote:By the way, I will try to remember to ask Ian if he wants to buy my car the day it's too expensive to repair.

Thanks, I already own an old Fiat

Vic20-Ian · Post by **Vic20-Ian** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:42 pm

Nice work. Thank you.

6502dude wrote:I went through my box of Vic-20 cart PCBs tonight and confirmed / added additional MOS Rom numbers to this listing:

MOS ROM Number Cartridge Name Cart ID
------------------------------------------------------------------------
325315-01 Programmers Aid Cartridge Vic-1212
325316-01 Machine Language Monitor Vic-1213
325310-02 Avenger (Vic Avenger) Vic-1901
325304-02 Star Battle Vic-1902
325312-01 (also rev 02) Slot (Super Slot) Vic-1904
325307-02 Jelly Monsters Vic-1905
325306-01 (also Rev 02) Alien (Super Alien) Vic-1906
325308-01 (also Rev 02) Jupiter Lander Vic-1907
325311-01 (also Rev 02) Poker (Draw Poker) Vic-1908
325309-02 Midnight Drive (Road Race) Vic-1909
901252-01 Radar Rat Race Vic-1910
901266-01 The Sky Is Falling VIC-1911
901264-01 Mole Attack VIC-1912
901270-01 Raid on Fort Knox VIC-1913
325335-01 or 901254-01 + 901255-01 Adventure Land VIC-1914
325336-01 or 901256-01 + 901257-01 Pirate's Cove VIC-1915
325337-01 or 901258-01 + 901259-01 Mission Impossible VIC-1916
325339-01 or 901262-01 + 901263-01 The Count VIC-1917
325338-01 or 901260-01 + 901261-01 Voodoo Castle VIC-1918
901253-01 Sargon II Chess VIC-1919
901271-01 + 901272-01 (also Rev 02) Pinball Spectacular VIC-1920
901265-01 Super Smash VIC-1921
901273-01 Cosmic Cruncher VIC-1922
901280-01 Gorf VIC-1923
901269-01 Omega Race VIC-1924
901279-01 Money Wars VIC-1925
901281-01 Menagerie VIC-1926
901283-01 Cosmic Jailbreak VIC-1927
901284-01 Home Babysitter VIC-1928
901290-01 Personal Finance VIC-1929
901285-01 Visible Solar System VIC-1930
901277-01 Clowns VIC-1931
901282-01 Garden Wars VIC-1932
901274-01 Speed Math & Bingo Math VIC-1933
325343-01 Commodore Artist VIC-1935
901278-01 Sea Wolf VIC-1937
901303-01 Tooth Invaders VIC-1938
901292-01 Star Post VIC-1939

It can be downloaded in .xlsx format from:
http://www.6502dude.com/cbm/vic20/carts ... mbers.xlsx

Hopefully this will help identify suspect cartridges in the future.

Vic20-Ian · Post by **Vic20-Ian** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:48 pm

e5frog wrote:
If I was to put some doubt to this just being an ordinary cart I have once stumbled upon a chip in a Channel F cart that had two games in it. But I guess other carts with this same chip could have that code as well then.

Until you run the cart you can't know 100%, but it is unlikely to be WoW with that chip or cart configuration.

My main point here was that some logic some people apply and some behaviours on this forum are very negative about this.

I emailed Fred and have offered to help and prove with data and also because I would like to get someone interested in the Vic to get involved in Denial again.

Vic20-Ian · Post by **Vic20-Ian** » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:11 pm

Boray wrote:
Vic20-Ian wrote: All chips I have seen with this number were adventure games

is not the same as

all chips of this number are adventure games
So you think it's actually possible that Commodore by mistake manufactured a WoW prototype along with the adventure carts? Ehum... Anyway, that this cart is a fake does not necessarily mean that the seller is aware of it. He could have got it in this state when buying a lot of cartridges or something. But it sure seems likely that he IS aware of it.

No Bo I don't think that.

I am not privy to the manufacturing process or the use of chips in 1980-1984 at Commodore.

Did commodore ever make manufacturing mistakes - possibly

Did they ever experiment / repurpose chips - surely

Loading a new bit of code, running it through chip manufacturing without changing labelling are all possible things a dev team can do in a factory even if it is bad quality process adherence.

Did they ever make a prototype WoW - I hope so

Did it survive - I hope so

Is it found now - I have my doubts, lots of conjecture, evidence it may be to the contrary but no proof yet.

I may have seen all the lists of white swans but I am not going to say all swans are not black.

I believe Fred's story of acquisition until he tells me different. I reached out a hand of friendship to help him, I though that was what Denial was about.

pallas · Post by **pallas** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:53 am

Vic20-Ian wrote: Until you run the cart you can't know 100%, but it is unlikely to be WoW with that chip or cart configuration.

My main point here was that some logic some people apply and some behaviours on this forum are very negative about this.

I emailed Fred and have offered to help and prove with data and also because I would like to get someone interested in the Vic to get involved in Denial again.

I don't think I'm a negative person, I always try to be helpful and positive.
But I'm a rational guy for sure, so I ponder the possibilities and, if I believe something is 99% "negative", I say it is

In this case, I believe it's not a WoW cart and so I do say.

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:59 am

I didn't know Fred was the seller, but still my point is: why doesn't he try and dump BEFORE selling it? Presenting with a WoW effectively running would not damage the bid, on the contrary it would help it a lot

Vic20-Ian · Post by **Vic20-Ian** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:35 am

orion70 wrote:I didn't know Fred was the seller, but still my point is: why doesn't he try and dump BEFORE selling it? Presenting with a WoW effectively running would not damage the bid, on the contrary it would help it a lot

Does it make a difference now you know it is Fred?

Apparently he has no Vic-20 anymore. I have been contacting to support and find a way to test so we have data to prove it is or is not WoW rather than conjecture.

My previous points were all about helping Fred to do this and dispelling the statements that it looks like a fake therefore it is a fake. vs a more constructive and evaluative approach.

I deal with conjecture and poor business decisions made on the basis of untested data a lot.

I agree it is likely to be a Scott Adams cart with a mischievous label but nobody we know knows or remembers if or how a WoW prototype was produced and this remains untested for now.

I voted to help Fred verify it and make a bit more money or find it is not WoW and save his Ebay reputation.

e5frog · Post by **e5frog** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:31 am

I wrote to the seller and it seems he has no interest at all forwarding information about Vodoo Castle having the same numbered chip as this loose pcb with modern labels, he'd rather let those who don't know keep hoping and bidding.

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:54 am

...and this seems to suggest he may be in bad faith - but admitting he's a man of good will, he'll surely let us help with the issue of reading the carts' content

e5frog · Post by **e5frog** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:52 am

It's not necessarily an issue, well an issue of plugging it into a VIC and write SYS32592 and press Return... if it's not broken. Desoldering it to place in an adapter (if needed) and read it in an eprom reader is a bit more work.

Vic20-Ian · Post by **Vic20-Ian** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:02 am

I emailed him to suggest he take it down so it can be tested.

The listing is now ended.

I think he has done the right thing.

e5frog · Post by **e5frog** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:04 am

I got a reply that it has been taken down to be tested by some "VIC20-ian" at some forum, mysterious fellow I have never heard of.

(and also a nearby friend)

You should ask to look in those other boxes, maybe there is a find somewhere.

Boray · Post by **Boray** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:22 am

Vic20-Ian wrote: Did they ever experiment / repurpose chips - surely

You can't reuse a ROM chip. Once it's made, it's contents is unchangeable.

Vic20-Ian · Post by **Vic20-Ian** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:34 am

yes Boray that is correct.

But you still have no proof of what was written to that chip, ok?