RAM...what to get?

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Mike
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Post by Mike »

Hi, Phil,

welcome to Denial! :)
nama wrote:I wanted to ask what is the best [RAM] expansion options.
That question really should go into the FAQ. ;)

To take on Boray's reply, I'd like to elaborate further:

Unlike many other home computers at the time, the VIC-20 thoroughly reorganises its memory map depending on how much memory is available. There are some hardware reasons contributing to that, but anyhow - in principle, you have three kinds of memory setup:

- VIC-20 unexpanded,

- VIC-20 with 3K RAM expansion, and

- VIC-20 with at least 8K RAM expansion.

These configurations are mutually incompatible for running programs. Effectively, you need to know exactly how much RAM is required for the game/program. Two exceptions to this rule:

- In most cases, BASIC programs written for the unexpanded VIC-20 will also run on a 3K expanded VIC-20 (not that this would buy you much), and

- Generally, a program requiring +8K will also work if +16K or +24K have been added, likewise a program requiring +16K will work with +24K.

To return to your question: you see there is no "best" standard expansion. It should merely be able to cover the 3 cases above. Mega-Cart, as indicated by Boray, is able to do that. Regards 32K expansions: these add yet another 8K to an address range normally covered by cartridges (the so-called BLK5). However, that address range is not contiguous with the rest of the RAM used by BASIC, so they won't add another 8K available for BASIC programs. You'll get the same number of bytes free as with a +24K expander. But if you own such an expander, you can soft-load cartridge images and run them from RAM.

...

You should also put some thought in obtaining a good mass storage solution. Today, there are media available slightly more comfortable than tape or floppy disks. A SD2IEC or uIEC, for example, allow you to store programs for the VIC-20 on a SD card, enabling you to transfer data between PC and VIC-20 quite the easy way.

Greetings,

Michael

P.S.: Jeff, you do acknowledge though that some of us actually also write programs for the expanded VIC-20, don't you? Thanks.
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buzbard
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Post by buzbard »

Boray wrote:With a 16K ram from Commodore, you can't put ram in block 5 and then you can't play copied plugin games.
That's not true.

The VIC-1111 16k cart is like having 2 VIC-1110 8k carts in one.

Just open the cartridge and in the lower center of the board cut the jumper that's marked with a 5 and put a drop of solder on the jumper with a number 7.

That'll move the 8k from BLK2 to BLK5.

Have a look at this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 0_open.JPG for reference.
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Mike
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Post by Mike »

buzbard wrote:That's not true. The VIC-1111 16k cart is like having 2 VIC-1110 8k carts in one. [...]
You can safely assume, that Boray knows about that.

Not all users are comfortable with opening hardware to modify it, though.

Unlike the 16K expander, the 8K expander came with DIP-switches, so its single 8K block could easily be moved. This was most probably intended to make the 8K combinable with the 16K expander at all - so they could produce a 24K expansion put together with a module box - the 16K in BLK1 and BLK2, and the additional 8K moved to BLK3.
Last edited by Mike on Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Boray
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Post by Boray »

buzbard wrote:
Boray wrote:With a 16K ram from Commodore, you can't put ram in block 5 and then you can't play copied plugin games.
That's not true.

The VIC-1111 16k cart is like having 2 VIC-1110 8k carts in one.

Just open the cartridge and in the lower center of the board cut the jumper that's marked with a 5 and put a drop of solder on the jumper with a number 7.

That'll move the 8k from BLK2 to BLK5.

Have a look at this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 0_open.JPG for reference.
Yes, but if you do that every time you want to play a cart image, it's rather a lot of work. ;) With the 8K cart you can remove the top metal or cut a hole in it and you have switches easily accessible:

Image

It's not very hard to solder on switches on a 16K cart though.
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Kananga
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Post by Kananga »

Boray wrote:It's not very hard to solder on switches on a 16K cart though.
It is indeed quite easy. I managed to do that with on of my 16K cartridges in my youth without any problems. (Giving me full 32K, but I didn't own a port expander back then :( )
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TBCVIC
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Post by TBCVIC »

Gah! I don't like cutting holes like that 8)
I'd also recommend a http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/wiki ... ?title=Fe3
Ola Andersson
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16KVIC20
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Post by 16KVIC20 »

Until I can get my hands on a Mega Cart (not even on the list yet) I'm content to make do with my 16K Commodore RAM pack. I also have a 3K commodore RAM pack on its way, so I have most bases covered.
I suppose one day I may get an uIEC device, as then I can see all these newer programs and demos.
nama
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Post by nama »

Thanks for all the replies.
I think if I can afford it, the mega cart might me the way to go.
As for the 'final expansion', does anyone know what they cost, or when the next batch may be produced?

Cheers
Phil
TBCVIC
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Post by TBCVIC »

The FE3 kit (assemble yourself) costs 69 EUR. Should be available "soon" hopefully.
Ola Andersson
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Diddl
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Post by Diddl »

Yes, FE3 will be available soon. If you need a PCB only, you can order it here: click
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akator
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Post by akator »

Just to clarify things so that I don't do anything I will later regret...

I would like to be able to run cart games loaded from a SD2IEC. I have a 16K expansion cart. If I make the jumper change described above to my 16K cart, it should be able to properly load and play cart game images.

Will the modded 16K expansion cart become useless for regular 16K software and only be able to run cart games?
HermanVIC
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Post by HermanVIC »

I have Cardco expansion RAM from years ago. It still works. I bought an expansion bus they sold at the time. It has six connectors like the connector on the VIC. So I plug in Cardco 16k memory expansion cards. I can change the block where the 8K segment will go. Each memory card has switches to move the RAM top where ever you want it in the memory scheme. The expansion card will accept game cards or things like VICForth or VICMon.

Herman
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