last night i had one of the rare chances to get out my soldering iron and perform a little surgery on my VIC-20. I've been lusting do the s-video mod documented in this thread for quite some time, so that's what I did.
The composite output from my VIC was horrible, rendering text in some color combinations unreadable (e.g. white text on cyan background) and others almost so (e.g. red on any background).
After the mod -- whoaa! Super quality picture (at least as good as what I get from my C64 Y/C out) and sharp, perfectly legible text in all colors
Finally I'll be able to play Victoria and other games where I couldn't read the text before.
Will post before and after screenshots soon.
Bacon
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Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
Bacon wrote:Finally I'll be able to play Victoria and other games where I couldn't read the text before.
Yup! Didn't know VICtoria has problems with colour layout. You're referring to the map, or to the text menus (blue on white)? I thought blue on white was sharp enough!
I only played VICtoria in VICE so far, so I didn't notice this problem. It was the same for the original version of Evil Castle; I switched back to the VIC default colour combination after having tried it on a real VIC, months after its development in VICE.
BTW- What colour combo for tha text/map screens would you suggest as an alternative for real VICs with regular composite cables?
It's been a few weeks since I tried to play Victoria so I don't quite remember which color combinations caused problems. IIRC there are different colors for different peoples/countries, and I think I had trouble reading some of those.
Blue on white is no problem.
Bacon
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Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
I downloaded VICE to my computer at work (don't tell anyone!) and checked it out. First of all, to clarify, it was Victoria Gold Edition I played. I haven't tried the original release so I can't comment on that.
The problems I had with composite out was when listing empires, since they show up in different colors. On my VIC (before the s-video mod) cyan text was virtually unreadable and red text not very legible. Yellow text was sort of OK, but far from good; mind you - yellow text on white background never gives really good contrast but on the VIC your choices are of course limited. Fortunately the VIC-20's yellow is slightly "dirty" so it gives better contrast than a more pure yellow would give.
Edit: I wrote this before I saw your reply above. I see you know what I mean.
Bacon
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Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
orion70 wrote:In this case, we *had* to use all the available colours to characterize each Empire, so I guess s-video is the only solution .
It depends. I suspect that not everyone has quite as awful a composite output as I had. You'll see just how horrible it was when I post the screenshots.
Bacon
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Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
I've been lusting to do the s-video mod documented in this thread for quite some time
Sounds encouraging, I am looking forward to your posts. I made a composite cable for a 1702 monitor, and after adjusting the internal pots on VIC, it had gotten MUCH better. However, the text has some ghosting and I can never get white to be just that, white. Perhaps I can improve my cable, I may re-do for comparison sake.
I might try this mod on my other VIC to see how that pans out.
Pre-mod screenshot (click for larger image):
Post-mod screenshot:
The colors in the s-video screenshot look washed-out, but I later fixed that with some tweaking of the variable resistor inside the VIC chip cage. Now the colors look great.
rhurst wrote:I might try this mod on my other VIC to see how that pans out.
If your picture was anything near as bad as mine, it's well worth the effort. But I must admit I was afraid of damaging the VIC chip or some other sensitive part of the VIC-20. Thankfully the VIC chip is socketed so I could remove it before I started to wreak havoc on the dear old computer.
gklinger wrote:How long did it take you to do the mod?
I'd say around half an hour. It's only a matter of replacing two easily accessed components, cutting two traces, and soldering a short wire. If you have any soldering/desoldering skills it's easy to do.
Bacon
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Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
Bacon, would you mind posting another pic showing the tweaked colours as well? Maybe we could add the 3 pictures to the wiki?
The difference is incredible. I had no idea it would make that much difference on the Vic. I upgraded to a composite cable a few weeks back and that was a big enough step. I think I'll try this on my 2nd machine to see the difference in reality.
"...That of the Eastern tribe being like a multitude of colours as if a rainbow had settled upon its brow..." Daniels 1:3
Pedro Lambrini wrote:Bacon, would you mind posting another pic showing the tweaked colours as well? Maybe we could add the 3 pictures to the wiki?
Sure, I'll post another screenshot as soon as I have the time. Might not be until this weekend. I'll also add the pictures to the wiki if no one else beats me to it.
The difference is incredible.
It cerainly is. The difference between composite and s-video (Y/C) out on a C64 is not as marked. I guess Commodore put a little more effort into the video circuitry in the 64.
Bacon
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Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
Pedro Lambrini wrote:Bacon, would you mind posting another pic showing the tweaked colours as well? Maybe we could add the 3 pictures to the wiki?
Sure, I'll post another screenshot as soon as I have the time. Might not be until this weekend. I'll also add the pictures to the wiki if no one else beats me to it.
Yes, please do. Also please add the information about washed out colours and how they can be corrected by tweaking one of the internal pots. Thanks.
rhurst wrote:While we're all asking for more stuff, can you mod my VIC for me too? And I will have a side of bacon with that order. Thank you!
Bacon
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Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
I've added screenshots and some info to the wiki article.
Bacon
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Das rubbernecken Sichtseeren keepen das cotton-pickenen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watschen die Blinkenlichten.
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