Vic 20's Keyboard font ??

Dimlow · Post by **Dimlow** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:04 am

I was just comparing a dirty vic to a clean one and i noticed the keyboard on the clean one has a rather square font on it. Is there any significance to this? Its an old vic with the 2 prong power connector.

Here is a pic http://eab.abime.net/picture.php?albumi ... tureid=722

Oh yea, and hi, my first post here, i spend most of my time over at the English Amiga board, worth a look if you into Amiga's

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:34 am

Yeah it's the old PET style keyboard font, it was present on most early Vic20 manufactures.

Oh and welcome to Denial btw

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:43 am

There are actually three VIC-20 keyboard fonts (if you only count the English keyboard VIC-20s).

1. Original PET style letters (with flat keytops): Microgramma Extended
2. Intermediate looking slightly more rounded letters, with thinner lines, but still slightly PET looking.
3. Lastly, the same type of tall, thin, Helvetica type font used on the first C64s too.

I think I have an idea for a new Denial Wiki article!

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:50 am

Dimlow wrote:Oh yea, and hi, my first post here, i spend most of my time over at the English Amiga board, worth a look if you into Amiga's

Hey, Dimlow. Nice to see you here.

Dimlow · Post by **Dimlow** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:01 am

OH so its not that special after all then.

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:09 am

Dimlow wrote:OH so its not that special after all then.

Well, it's special in so-far as it's an early model VIC. I count that as special...just not that rare.

Personally, I really like the original font. It's nice and clear and evokes the age of the machine. Can't beat nostalgia.

PaulQ · Post by **PaulQ** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:17 am

Pedro Lambrini wrote:
Dimlow wrote:OH so its not that special after all then.
Well, it's special in so-far as it's an early model VIC. I count that as special...just not that rare.

Personally, I really like the original font. It's nice and clear and evokes the age of the machine. Can't beat nostalgia.

I always felt the original font looked more "Futuristic." Even when I look at it today, it looks as though it's from some distant future generation of computers.

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:32 am

^
Yeah, I kind of agree. To me, it's got a retro-futurism that I really enjoy. A bit like reading 1950's sci-fi novels where they have things like boxes that can heat food in less than a minute or telephonic devices that you can carry in your pocket- ooooh!

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:38 pm

New keyboard article here:

http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/wiki ... e=Keyboard

Dimlow · Post by **Dimlow** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:08 pm

Nice Wiki, but i disagree with this.
"The VIC-20 keyboard is electronically and physically compatible with that used in the Commodore 16 and Commodore 64 model computers. "

VIC 20 and C64 keyboard are not interchangeable, i have tried it. Some keys work , others don't. when i looked at the C64 and they Vic Schematics, its quite clear that the matrix is connected to the VIA's in a different order.

eslapion · Post by **eslapion** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:53 pm

Dimlow wrote:VIC 20 and C64 keyboard are not interchangeable, i have tried it. Some keys work , others don't. when i looked at the C64 and they Vic Schematics, its quite clear that the matrix is connected to the VIA's in a different order.

Say what???

The ONLY difference between the later generations of VIC's keyboard and the 64's is the color of the function keys.

The matrix is identical. Interchanging keyboards between the VIC and the 64 has been done thousands of time and they do share the same matrix.

Over the years, I have seen dozens of 64s with a VIC's keyboard and the opposite as well...

Post by **Jeff-20** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:22 pm

The HELP key on the C16 doesn't work when it's attached to a VIC.

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:45 pm

My understanding was that the VIC-20 and 64 keyboards are identical (save appearance) and I confirmed it with Jim Brain who knows a thing or two about Commodore keyboards.

Jeff: The keyboard matrix for the +4/C16 is different.

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:53 pm

Jeff-20 wrote:The HELP key on the C16 doesn't work when it's attached to a VIC.

Ah...I didn't know that the C16 had a HELP key. I will update the article.

As I said in the WIKI announcement thread, anyone who would like to add technical info about they keyboards to the article, please do. That's my weakness.

Dimlow · Post by **Dimlow** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:09 am

[quote="eslapion
The ONLY difference between the later generations of VIC's keyboard and the 64's is the color of the function keys.
quote]

I noticed that you say later generations, that may be true, but i have a C64 (Rev A Board i believe) here with two missing keys. and a perfectly working vic 20 ( no so early ). I swapped the Keyboard, and it does not work on the 64. I checked the schematics and they were not the same. I concluded that i would need to swap about 8 lines on the connector for it to work. I don't have the time to check right now but i will recheck later tonight for you all.

Oh and Hello gkilger, Now i know who you are, From EAB! Yes nice to see you here.

Just checked the schematics. i am right!

VIC 20

http://eab.abime.net/picture.php?albumi ... tureid=729
C64
http://eab.abime.net/picture.php?albumi ... tureid=728

The Col and ROW lines are swapped

Vic 20's Keyboard font ??

Vic 20's Keyboard font ??

Re: Vic 20's Keyboard font ??