Video Game Schools
Video Game Schools
Video game revenue now exceeds the film industry. Still, for some reason, I am concerned about the proliferation of "Video Game Design" schools. Most seem to just be exploiting the aimless youth. What do you think the overall effect these schools will be on gaming?
I beg to differ. At least the higher academic degrees in computer games contain many of the elements of traditional computer science, just adapted to focus on the key elements in game development. I believe the major developers will be very eager to recruit the top students, those who both have a natural skill and a thorough education in the matter.
Certainly there may be some luck seekers, less established education centers where students of less skill or motivation get accepted. Those schools would just suck the education money out of their students, but who knows: as the industry grows every day, perhaps even the "sloppy seconds" (as per Sean Avery quote) will find work to do. Remember in the crazy days of the 1990's when anyone from an engineer via students to farmers and housewives could get a job in IT. We'll never see that kind of blind recruitment again, but a home-peddling graphics designer or wannabee programmer is probably a bit better and more motivated than random person on the street.
Certainly there may be some luck seekers, less established education centers where students of less skill or motivation get accepted. Those schools would just suck the education money out of their students, but who knows: as the industry grows every day, perhaps even the "sloppy seconds" (as per Sean Avery quote) will find work to do. Remember in the crazy days of the 1990's when anyone from an engineer via students to farmers and housewives could get a job in IT. We'll never see that kind of blind recruitment again, but a home-peddling graphics designer or wannabee programmer is probably a bit better and more motivated than random person on the street.
Anders Carlsson
Let me stop you right there because you're not getting what Jeff is talking about. He isn't talking about reputable universities and colleges but rather privately owned and operated 'career colleges' which are advertised heavily on daytime TV (mostly during loser-oriented TV shows, natch) in the USA and, to a lesser degree, Canada. If you watch one of the fake court shows or exploitative-style talk shows you'll see commercial after commercial for cooking schools, truck driving schools, nursing/dental assistant schools etc. etc. It's comically ridiculous.carlsson wrote:At least the higher academic degrees [...]
There are government bursaries and loan programs setup to pay for educating the unemployed in the hope that they'll find gainful employment and stop collecting government assistance. The problem is that a percentage of the unemployed are unemployable due to extreme stupidity. These schools are setup to appeal to them. The lure of a fun and easy education leading to a high-paying job is enough to get the idjits to apply and provided they're eligible for handouts/loans or, as unlikely as it sounds, have a nickel of their own, they're accepted.
When I was running my company I had a guy show up (uninvited) asking about a job. Since he was standing in front of me I asked to see his resume. Turned out he was a recent graduate of a 12 week (seriously) program from one of these fake schools and had been granted a 'degree' in "Advanced Network Engineering". What was really sad/scary (depending on perspective) was that he actually believed that he was qualified to be a network engineer and honestly, I was surprised he was able to work the knob on the front door of my office. I was uncharacteristically polite when I lied and said that we weren't in a position to take on any new staff and he went on his merry way. I'm sure that after a few weeks of being rejected for such jobs he ended up right back on the sofa. He probably enrolled in another such school and got a degree as a brain surgeon.
Last edited by gklinger on Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
In the end it will be as if nothing ever happened.
Ok, I see what you mean. That would categorize in the "luck seeker" section I wrote about.
Anyway in my world a 12 week course should be enough to be a network technician, at least as long as you focus on hardware and a little about software configuration. Perhaps I'm misjudging what it takes to be a top class network technician, but to me it never appeared to be a job which requires a long education and years of experience. Certainly you will learn more along the time, but the most talented ones may also advance to other parts of IT, like network programming, hardware design, infrastructure planning and so on.
I also believe after 12 weeks of intensive cooking or truck driving, you should be able to get most entry-level jobs in those branches of trade. You won't be a master chef, but with the right mix of honesty, ambition and ability to follow instructions it shouldn't be a waste of time. Certainly if those "career colleges" fool their students into thinking one will become an expert in the topic and boost their attitude (experts tend to be a bit snotty), all is lost. It also depends on what kind of instructors they employ; unqualified and unmotivated ones won't educate anyone.
What the video game industry really might need, unless it already exists, is some independent quality assurance people. Some company a software house can send their prospective employees to and from a set of tests and exams get a fair evaluation if this person has what it takes, even with no previous merits or degrees.
Anyway, does this have anything to do with the VIC-20? I doubt anyone of us will get an occupation at a modern video game developer based on our homebrewn VIC software.
/me ponders moving the topic to Off-Topic
Anyway in my world a 12 week course should be enough to be a network technician, at least as long as you focus on hardware and a little about software configuration. Perhaps I'm misjudging what it takes to be a top class network technician, but to me it never appeared to be a job which requires a long education and years of experience. Certainly you will learn more along the time, but the most talented ones may also advance to other parts of IT, like network programming, hardware design, infrastructure planning and so on.
I also believe after 12 weeks of intensive cooking or truck driving, you should be able to get most entry-level jobs in those branches of trade. You won't be a master chef, but with the right mix of honesty, ambition and ability to follow instructions it shouldn't be a waste of time. Certainly if those "career colleges" fool their students into thinking one will become an expert in the topic and boost their attitude (experts tend to be a bit snotty), all is lost. It also depends on what kind of instructors they employ; unqualified and unmotivated ones won't educate anyone.
What the video game industry really might need, unless it already exists, is some independent quality assurance people. Some company a software house can send their prospective employees to and from a set of tests and exams get a fair evaluation if this person has what it takes, even with no previous merits or degrees.
Anyway, does this have anything to do with the VIC-20? I doubt anyone of us will get an occupation at a modern video game developer based on our homebrewn VIC software.
/me ponders moving the topic to Off-Topic
Anders Carlsson
I tend to agree with Golan on this one.
There are a ton of these fake schools both in the US and Canada that churn out people with no real skills than what they arrived with.
Sadly many of them are stuck with big debt load (often $20K) for substandard and inadequate training.
A few government run colleges are not much better.
Several years ago, I worked on a side project with one college.
They received close to $20M in funding from another level of government to create a program for game design.
It was a huge waste of money and few (if any) "graduates" actually obtained employment in the industry.
(My project had nothing to do with the game design program).
More recently (about a year ago), I a family friend asked me to look at course curriculum in computer networking program that they were in enroled in. There was entire term module devoted to Novell
Many on the other core modules were also out of date. (Maybe time to re-evaluate who is designing the program).
Ultimately, only those who have a genuine interest in a topic area prior to enrollment are destined for success, not the coach potato watching Judge Judy and Muary with expectations of instant success at a diploma mill.
There are a ton of these fake schools both in the US and Canada that churn out people with no real skills than what they arrived with.
Sadly many of them are stuck with big debt load (often $20K) for substandard and inadequate training.
A few government run colleges are not much better.
Several years ago, I worked on a side project with one college.
They received close to $20M in funding from another level of government to create a program for game design.
It was a huge waste of money and few (if any) "graduates" actually obtained employment in the industry.
(My project had nothing to do with the game design program).
More recently (about a year ago), I a family friend asked me to look at course curriculum in computer networking program that they were in enroled in. There was entire term module devoted to Novell
Many on the other core modules were also out of date. (Maybe time to re-evaluate who is designing the program).
Ultimately, only those who have a genuine interest in a topic area prior to enrollment are destined for success, not the coach potato watching Judge Judy and Muary with expectations of instant success at a diploma mill.
Mega-Cart: the ultimate cartridge for your Commodore Vic-20carlsson: These schools are a joke. In fact, they've become so much of a joke that they've even been satirized on Saturday Night Live. I've yet to find the video online so read this transcript and you'll get an idea about what we're talking about.
Anyway, my theory is that if someone is stupid enough to be drawn in by the adverts and enrolls in one of those schools, they're too stupid to work for me.
Anyway, my theory is that if someone is stupid enough to be drawn in by the adverts and enrolls in one of those schools, they're too stupid to work for me.
In the end it will be as if nothing ever happened.
All kidding aside, not all of these people are couch potatos or inherently stupid. Some of these people have just never had the proper influences. Mom works at a job she loathes, Dad is nowhere to be found, and the only kids who want to be with them are kids that are in the same boat. Inspiration comes from the Television, and what they want is the unattainable lifestyles being portrayed. They see an ad promising them a career as a videogame programmer, so they walk in completely blind. The public school system has left them ill-prepared when it comes to the mathematical skills necessary for computer programming, but they don't even know that!
As anyone who has ever written even a relatively simple game on a relatively simple computer such as the Vic 20 in a simple language such as BASIC will soon discover, programming is a discipline that requires a strong grasp of mathematics, logic, and patience. Not to mention time management skills; even a 3.5k program can take a while to write. It also takes foresight and determination. Unlike other disciplines, programming skills can take years to develop to maturity. Some of the biggest names in the 80's didn't suddenly start coming out with great games for the Vic and C64; many of those had experience on the PET and even prior.
In the end, I also don't see these schools having an adverse affect on the industry, as I doubt that any of these people who have made it past the interview process will make it through their first week before being shown the door. I saw this all the time as a Y2k programmer; fortunately, as one of those who stayed on until the inevitable end that arrived in 2001.
As anyone who has ever written even a relatively simple game on a relatively simple computer such as the Vic 20 in a simple language such as BASIC will soon discover, programming is a discipline that requires a strong grasp of mathematics, logic, and patience. Not to mention time management skills; even a 3.5k program can take a while to write. It also takes foresight and determination. Unlike other disciplines, programming skills can take years to develop to maturity. Some of the biggest names in the 80's didn't suddenly start coming out with great games for the Vic and C64; many of those had experience on the PET and even prior.
In the end, I also don't see these schools having an adverse affect on the industry, as I doubt that any of these people who have made it past the interview process will make it through their first week before being shown the door. I saw this all the time as a Y2k programmer; fortunately, as one of those who stayed on until the inevitable end that arrived in 2001.
No they do not have an adverse effect on gaming industry, nor do they have any positive impact.DigitalQuirk wrote:In the end, I also don't see these schools having an adverse affect on the industry
The adverse affect these schools do have - is on the individual who wastes their time and increased debt load via student loans. In addition, some students are funded via EI program or other subsidized government programs. This is a waste of our tax dollars.
What is the point of sticking a 50+ year old forestry sector worker (who has never used a computer before) into a game design training program that has poor content and sub-standard instructors? It is a recipie for failure.
Mega-Cart: the ultimate cartridge for your Commodore Vic-20Those days are over. You would be impressed at the work an applicant for Second Career has to go to in order to secure taxpayer dollars to pay for his or her education. The application process is extensive, and the applicant needs to research both potential employers in their chosen field and the school they plan on attending. It's much like a business plan. That forestry sector worker would need to describe why he wants to be a game designer, why it's a good choice for him, and who he would plan on working for upon graduation.6502dude wrote: No they do not have an adverse effect on gaming industry, nor do they have any positive impact.
The adverse affect these schools do have - is on the individual who wastes their time and increased debt load via student loans. In addition, some students are funded via EI program or other subsidized government programs. This is a waste of our tax dollars.
What is the point of sticking a 50+ year old forestry sector worker (who has never used a computer before) into a game design training program that has poor content and sub-standard instructors? It is a recipie for failure.
The expectation is that the applicant would discover, after contacting potential employers, whether or not an educational institute is one that employer would consider hiring from. This means that if Golan's company was on someone's list, he could be as impolite as he likes about the diploma mills and set the applicant straight about his or her expectations.
Perhaps not a long formal, university education, but to be worth anything you have to have a firm grasp of the underlying technology. If you cant figure out the network and broadcast addresses in a /27 subnet, or can't explain what a /27 subnet is, you are done. the world is filled with people who think that because they configured a linksys router at home, they understand networking.Anyway in my world a 12 week course should be enough to be a network technician, at least as long as you focus on hardware and a little about software configuration. Perhaps I'm misjudging what it takes to be a top class network technician, but to me it never appeared to be a job which requires a long education and years of experience.
I know of no 12 week course that effectively gives people the skills needed to be successful.
AND, if you have zero networking knowledge, then forget it, I seriously doubt 12 weeks on, you would have what it takes.
I personally consider a one year technical program certification at a community college to be the minimal standard one should expect to attain employment in a given technical field. A two year diploma will usually provide a broader range of skills necessary for a given technical field.
People often think that one or two years is too long; but in reality, that time flies and, depending on the program, can seem inadequate. In other words, you have no time for anything else if you plan on being successful.
People often think that one or two years is too long; but in reality, that time flies and, depending on the program, can seem inadequate. In other words, you have no time for anything else if you plan on being successful.
Yet, per Micro$oft, someone can write 6 exams - pass them, and now call themselves an "engineer".dragos wrote:I know of no 12 week course that effectively gives people the skills needed to be successful.
I knew one guy who studied and wrote one exam per week for six weeks and was then a MSCE. (He was already an electrical engineer, but a completely useless boob). He was an excellent "book learner", but could apply absolutely nothing he learned.
I would much rather have a staff member who is keenly interested in networking, rather than someone with a pile of credentials.
Mega-Cart: the ultimate cartridge for your Commodore Vic-20