My Amiga 2000

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PaulQ
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My Amiga 2000

Post by PaulQ »

I took this shot before I installed the replacement Kickstart chip and switch:

Image

It's in amazingly mint condition. What you see here is a very bare bones A2000. I have a LOT of plans slated for this machine.

So far, I've installed the triple Kickstart chip; here's where I mounted the switch:

Image

Here's the 3.1 kickstart screen:

Image

Next up; installing a hard drive and more memory.
d0c
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Post by d0c »

and no aga what a pity....
1983 vic20 & 3k-16k ram expansion....
6502dude
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Post by 6502dude »

Hey a 1084s monitor!

Was this a last minute WOC deal item? :wink:
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gklinger
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Re: My Amiga 2000

Post by gklinger »

DigitalQuirk wrote:I have a LOT of plans slated for this machine.
Like what? You can't just say something like that in a place like this and then not follow up with details. That's cruel.
In the end it will be as if nothing ever happened.
PaulQ
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Post by PaulQ »

To address d0c's comment, it won't be hobbled by the rather slow AGA chipset; I'm thinking something along the lines of a Picasso 96, eventually.

Plans will be:

1. Max out hard drive storage capacity
2. Add my SCSI zip drive for mass removable storage, as well as an internal SCSI CD-ROM drive
3. Expand memory as high as I can
4. Accelerate it as fast as I can
NOTE: Already have the hard drive controller card, zip drive, '020 accelerator, and 8MB RAM card; while an '020 isn't maxed out, it's a step in the right direction.
5. Add a Zorro slot ethernet card to connect to broadband
6. Upgrade the video with a video card
7. Provide it with modern day peripheral connectivity (ie; a Thylacine Zorro-slot USB 1.1 card), as well as modern-day peripherals.
8. Whatever else sparks my imagination.

Of course, all this isn't going to happen at once; I'll patiently add components as I build it up. However, I'm thinking internet connectivity may become a priority.

Oh, and the 1084s was a bit of a last minute deal... :wink:
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eslapion
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Post by eslapion »

DigitalQuirk wrote:To address d0c's comment, it won't be hobbled by the rather slow AGA chipset; I'm thinking something along the lines of a Picasso 96, eventually.
Here, I have to inform you that an Amiga 2000 is low cost for a reason. It does not support Zorro III transfer speeds in its expansion slots. For that reason, a Picasso card, whatever version, in the 2000, is not necessarily faster than AGA, as a matter of fact, its probably slower.

The Amiga 2000 has Zorro II slots. This limits the transfer speed to all expansion slots except the CPU slot, which is used for accelerators, to 3.58 Mbytes/sec. For that reason, even if you put in a fast display card such as a Picasso or Cybergraphix which supports the fast Zorro III standard, this display adapter will fall back to Zorro II speeds when installed in an Amiga 2000.

AFAIK, Only the Amiga 3000/3000T and 4000/4000T supports Zorro III speeds.

The AGA chipset which uses 32bit ChipRAM has a theoretical maximum transfer speed which I believe is 14.32MBytes/Sec. while Zorro III runs around 20MBytes/sec.
PaulQ
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Post by PaulQ »

eslapion wrote: Here, I have to inform you that an Amiga 2000 is low cost for a reason. It does not support Zorro III transfer speeds in its expansion slots. For that reason, a Picasso card, whatever version, in the 2000, is not necessarily faster than AGA, as a matter of fact, its probably slower.

The Amiga 2000 has Zorro II slots. This limits the transfer speed to all expansion slots except the CPU slot, which is used for accelerators, to 3.58 Mbytes/sec. For that reason, even if you put in a fast display card such as a Picasso or Cybergraphix which supports the fast Zorro III standard, this display adapter will fall back to Zorro II speeds when installed in an Amiga 2000.

AFAIK, Only the Amiga 3000/3000T and 4000/4000T supports Zorro III speeds.

The AGA chipset which uses 32bit ChipRAM has a theoretical maximum transfer speed which I believe is 14.32MBytes/Sec. while Zorro III runs around 20MBytes/sec.
Ah, I see...so perhaps I'd be better off going with a Blizzard 2604e Power Board combined with the CyberVisionPPC (or similar type of combination) for optimal performance. Apparently, it bypasses the Zorro II bus and offers data transfer rates of up to 100 MB/s. Of course, for my use, that may be overkill; but I'll see where this path takes me. Upgrading the video is probably going to be last on my list.

That's what I love about the Amiga 2000...it's never obsolete.
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ral-clan
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Post by ral-clan »

(forgive the punctuation in this message. For some reason some of the buttons arent working on my keyboard - like the apostrophe).

I don't think the Blizzard PPC accelerators will work in an A2000 CPU slot. In fact, I think the fastest processor ever made for the A2000 is a 68060.

The A3000/4000 have totally incompatible (from the A2000) CPU expansion slots (accelerator slots). So the PPC boards made for them will not work in an A2000.

That said: you'd also pay about $1000US for an Amiga PPC accelerator card nowadays even if you could find one, expecially as they are in SUPER HIGH demand due to the recent release of OS4.0 classic (which requires a PPC card).

I think you are probably better off getting a 68040 card. That is really the most practical and affordable option for A2000 CPU acceleration and still provides great functionality. I have used one in my A2000 for the past 10 years to do all sorts of music and graphic productivity work. You can get one pretty easily (used) for about $150-$200 and most come with the ability to expand to 32MB RAM.

A graphics card is a must for productivity work, but not for gaming. I would recommend a simple Picasso II or SpectraVision card. Those are the slower cards, but as Eslapion said, you don't benefit from the speed of the later cards in an A2000 anyway, because of the Zorro II architecture speed.

If all you want is to create a perfect Amiga gaming machine, you already have a great Amiga. Only a handful of games were made to run on graphics cards, and most games were made to run on a simple 68000 or at most a 68020 (which is what the A1200 came with stock).

A flicker fixer or scan-doubler for the video slot might be a nice option. You could then use interlaced (or higher resolution) applications without straining your eyes. Again, these are pretty much snapped up on Ebay, though. You won't be able to use your 1084 with a flicker fixer. You'll be able to use any regular PC VGA monitor though.

I am a BIG fan of the A2000. Have used one as my main "creativity" workhorse since aquiring it in 1996 or thereabouts (used an A500 before that since 1987).

The best thing about the Amiga 2000 is its great build quality. It is extremely well built, and has that strong massive metal case with tons of room!

Here's a pic of it in my home music studio:

http://www.amiga.org/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=2885

The configuration is:

A2000 Rev4.3
PP&S 68040 accelerator with 32MB RAM
8 MB SupraRAM card
Picasso II+ video card
DKB MegaChip (for 2MB Chip RAM)
Repulse 16-24bit audio card
A2091 SCSI controller with GuruROM chip.
1GB internal HD.
Internal SCSI CD-ROM drive
External SCSI devices: scanner, CD-burner, 2GB hard drive.

I dont do much gaming on this. Its for productivity work. Ive got a slightly expanded Amiga 500 with hard drive in the garage reserved for gaming when I have the room to set it up.

So, I'm very familiar with the A2000's strong and weak points. If there is any way I can help you out just let me know.
Last edited by ral-clan on Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.
PaulQ
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Post by PaulQ »

Apparently, the 2604e Power Board was designed specifically for the A2000 architecture:

http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1997 ... hase5.html

That said, cost is a consideration. Overpriced peripherals and expansion options was the main reason why I defected from Commodore in the '90's and switched to PC. Prices have, for the most part, seem to have become reasonable these days; at least for A2000 peripherals and expansion cards.

I would like to turn it into a relatively modern, everyday use type of computer. I honestly believe this goal to be perfectly feasible.

PS: I can't see your pic.
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ral-clan
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Post by ral-clan »

I dont think the the Blizzard 2604e was ever actually produced. It doesnt appear on the BIG BOOK OF AMIGA HARDWARE website among Phase 5 products (under the A2000 accelerators section).

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showcat.cgi?CATID=6
Prices have, for the most part, seem to have become reasonable these days; at least for A2000 peripherals and expansion cards.
Well, the only problem with Amiga stuff is that, unlike VIC stuff, it has gone up about 100% on Ebay over the past two years. It got old enough to finally make the transition from popular perception as obsolete junk to cool retro and collectable.

If you find stuff in the wild, of course, you can get it cheap (especially if someone just wants to get rid of it).

PS: Digitalquirk you managed to reply before I had done all the edits to the message above, I just now added the link to the picture and finished the message! (trying to resolve the keyboard issues).

PPS: Ive tried web-browsing on my A2000. Its do-able, but Amiga browsers are about 10 years behind the times, therefore no java, no flash animation (i hate flash), iffy access to any sites that require secure login, and a little bit slow to render any intensive websites with tables, etc. Would be fun to try though.

As an aside, I dont think its a problem so much with Amiga browsers, but the fact that so few websites nowadays adhere to true HTML standards - and so many are graphics intensive (all flash and no substance).

That said, in terms of doing good word processing, desktop publication, graphics manipulation, e-mail, etc. The Amiga is quite capable.

There is even a good classic MAC emulator (shapeshifter) available for free which will turn your Amiga into a fully functional classic MAC (68000 family). If you can find a Bridge board or PC card, you can run MAC, Amiga and MS-DOS (or Windows 3.1) all in the same computer!

Old PC boards for the Amiga are cheap nowadays.
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Post by PaulQ »

Ral-clan, I hear what you're saying about eBay; though, for the most part, much of the high bidding seems reserved to A1200/A3000/A4000 stuff, as well as peripherals such as hard drives, expanders, and accelerators for the A500. A500's, as well as expansion cards for the A2000, seem relatively unscathed. For instance, this clean looking 2091 went for a very reasonable $26.01:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Amiga-2091-Scsi-Cont ... dZViewItem

Granted, it's no Blizzard card, and I expect rarer items to cost more; however, I think I should be able to get pretty far before I have to start shelling out three-digit dollar prices.

A question about using old 8 and 16 bit PC boards; am I correct in assuming that I would need a Bridgeboard to access those slots?
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ral-clan
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Post by ral-clan »

Hi!

Oh, yes you are right. The older A2091 cards are still cheap. But make sure you get Eslapion to burn you a v7.0 ROM for that board if you buy it. The old ROMs (version 6.0 and previous) are problematic with multiple SCSI devices, removable media devices (ZIP, CD-ROM, etc.). v6.6 ROMs might get you by, but the 7.0 ROM is the best. There is also a Western Digital chip on that board which needs to be updated....but the chip is cheap and common still (check vendors below).

Basically, if you stick to a single SCSI device on that card, you can probably manage with the older chipsets on the board.

The only problem with the A2091 is it's not very fast, but I've used one for years and I can say that with the latest ROMs it is at least reliable. Make sure it has some RAM on board (I'm sure someone here has those chips and will give you them for free - they are old and common).

RAM boards, 68030 and 040 boards are still reasonably priced, as I mentioned. '060 & PPC boards are insane. Graphics boards are not insane yet, but you have to compete to get them.

As for using the PC slots. Correct, they will not function as real ISA card slots unless you have a bridgeboard installed. Otherwise, I think you CAN use them as simple dummy slots (i.e. they supply power on one of the pins so old ISA cards that have a cooling fan on them will work). Also, you can insert a dummy plastic card into them that will allow you to mount a hard-drive vertically on it (i.e. on the card) to keep your big drive bay free. In that case, it's merely used as a 'holder' for the card.

The A2000 is a great Amiga! Not as fast as the later ones, but fully capable.

You might want to try one of the remaining reputable dealers in Amiga goods in North America: AmigaKit and Software Hut.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SS:US:1123
http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web ... _store.cgi

Software Hut's web site sucks, but they have good prices and they are trusted.

AmigaKit sells fewer products, mostly "new" stock. Software Hut sells new and reconditioned used Amiga stuff (so you can find graphics boards and accelerators there for your A2000).

Next time you're at Value Village, check for old SCSI scanners. They are dirt cheap and will work with the free BetaScan program on Aminet (you do know about Aminet eh?). I use a ScanMaker E3 on mine, and keep seeing them for less than $10 at Value Village. Oh, and even old SCSI scanners on the Amiga are sometimes faster than PC parallel port or cheap USB scanners. SCSI stuff used to be popular for Macs in the 1990s and almost all of it will work on Amiga (external drives, scanners, cables).

You may also want to purchase a copy of OS3.5 or 3.9 when you have the inkling. It's not totally necessary if you already have Workbench 3.1, but it looks a lot better and has some nice updates in a clean professional package (not to mention support for large hard disks).
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ral-clan
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Post by ral-clan »

Just had a look at that auction for the A2091. I would definitely recommend getting one, as they are cheap, reliable and fairly well supported. Just expect, as I said, to pay another $20 to upgrade the chips on board.

The auction touts the onboard power supply connector. Don't use it. It is underpowered and can't reliably operate most drives. My 1GB hard drive is bolted to the A2091, but I feed it power from the A2000's power supply. When I used to power it through the A2091's connector it worked fine at first, but when I started adding other cards to the A2000 you could hear the drive spinning down and then up as it experienced "brown outs".

Here's a note about the chip upgrading needed for the A2091 (from Big Book of Amiga Hardware):
ROM revisions are a common problem with the A2091; 6.6 or later ROMs are desirable, with 7.0 being the last version (strongly recommended, and necessary for 68040 machines). Most A2091s have revision 04 of the Western Digital 33C93 SCSI controller chip; replacing this with the 08 version may clear up SCSI bus problems. (Despite common belief, the "PROTO" marking is insignificant on either version of the WD chip; version 04 or version 08 are the only significant values.)
Note, even with the 7.0 ROM, the A2091 has a problem with DMA transfers when used with 68040 accelerators. The controller can't DMA to fast RAM and therefore starts to do transfers in an older way that's as slow as a floppy drive. Fortunately, there are some free patches on Aminet to fix this (which I can help you with if you ever go that route).

The best solution if you go the 68040 route it to buy an accelerator with an onboard SCSI controller.

Can't you tell I just love talking about the A2000! :D
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Post by PaulQ »

In light of the information you've provided, ral-clan, my plans for this computer have changed.

Instead of maxing everything out, I think I'd like to make it into the Amiga I wish I had right when I abandoned my A500. 8 or nine megs of ram should be plenty; as well as a sufficiently large enough hard drive to hold everything (should be easy these days). Definitely need a CD-ROM drive (preferably a burner), and ethernet access. A high density drive for DF1: would be fun to tinker with, and a USB port, while nice, may not be all that practical; nor necessary if I have ethernet access to my PC.

Currently, I'm fiddling with an A2090 which works fine, but is a bit of a bear to get to work with anything modern. If you come across a 2091, do let me know.
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ral-clan
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Post by ral-clan »

Just some comments on what you've posted:
DigitalQuirk wrote:Instead of maxing everything out, I think I'd like to make it into the Amiga I wish I had right when I abandoned my A500. 8 or nine megs of ram should be plenty;
Yes, 8 or 9 megs of RAM is tons for most Amiga games and applications. Especially if you're sticking to software from the early 90s and earlier.
as well as a sufficiently large enough hard drive to hold everything (should be easy these days).
Yes, even a 300 MB hard drive (find an old MAC) should be lots for Amiga stuff.
Definitely need a CD-ROM drive (preferably a burner),
I believe that Workbench 3.1 comes with drivers for CD drives. If you get a burner, look up the program MAKECD. The author released the keyfile to public domain last year. I use it a lot. It's not drag and drop, but it's reliable and has a lot of features.
and ethernet access.
Ethernet cards can be pricey, but not insanely so. There are lots of free methods to network your Amiga to your PC using a parallel or null modem cable. Check Aminet for free software to do this. Also look up Cloanto's "Amiga Forever". It comes with software called "Amiga Explorer" for doing something similar (plus copies of legal kickstart images, OS3.1, and lots of other goodes useable even if you don't want to run the emulator included).

Of course, Amigas will also read 720K MS-DOS discs.
A high density drive for DF1: would be fun to tinker with,
High density drives are okay. I have one, but I barely use it now that I have CD access. They are still costly on Ebay, unfortunately, but seeing that you're near Toronto you might find someone selling one used. Be aware the HD disks on the Amiga were very slow (a hack really).

They can be useable with Mac emulators though, for reading those MAC HD discs (although a regular Amiga disk drive will read the Mac 800K discs).
and a USB port, while nice, may not be all that practical;
I have considered a USB port for my Amiga, but I'm not sure I would use it all that often (enough to justify it), and having the USB program running in the background would probably just suck up CPU cycles and RAM (on a computer with a 68040/020 this might be a performance hit).
Currently, I'm fiddling with an A2090 which works fine, but is a bit of a bear to get to work with anything modern. If you come across a 2091, do let me know.
I've heard that the A2090 is a bit of a beast. But it should be fine as long as you limit yourself to one drive.

When you get your Amiga set up you should consider looking at the program WHDLOAD. It allows you to hard-drive install a lot of old Amiga games that were never meant to run on a hard drive. It also allows a lot of older games to work on later versions of Workbench (from a hard drive). It's very helpful....and you can have a hard drive chock full of great classics loadable in seconds.

http://www.whdload.de/
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