eBay Dilemma - Advice Needed

6502dude · Post by **6502dude** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:40 am

The downside of leaving a negative is seller may slam you with a negative with misleading detail. I tried to resolve an issue with a seller for about 2 months. The seller would not reply to e-mails. I called and was hung up on. I filed with paypal, got refund, and left a negative feedback. I then got slammed

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:13 pm

6502dude wrote:The downside of leaving a negative is seller may slam you with a negative with misleading detail.

That isn't a concern in this case because as soon as the auction was won my girlfriend PayPaled the money to the seller and he immediately left positive feedback because she had done exactly what she was responsible for doing as a buyer. I find sellers that wait until the buyer leaves feedback to be suspicious.

6502dude · Post by **6502dude** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:27 pm

gklinger wrote:I find sellers that wait until the buyer leaves feedback to be suspicious.

I agree totally.

Too bad many sellers have adopted this practise.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:40 pm

As a seller I never leave feedback until the buyer does. It means they are happy with the transaction. Leaving feedback first leaves you open to a chargeback for any reason...

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:04 pm

Mayhem wrote:As a seller I never leave feedback until the buyer does.

See, I don't think that's right. When a buyer buys something on eBay their half of the deal includes one and only one thing: payment. Once the buyer makes payment, the seller should give them positive feedback. If the seller doesn't want negative feedback they should promptly ship exactly what they specified in the auction and then notify the buyer that the item has shipped. When the item arrives, if it is as was specified in the auction listing, the buyer should notify the seller and show their thanks by leaving them positive feedback. If the item is not as described, inform the seller. If, for example, the item arrived as described but broken and the seller says the item was shipped in working order, give them the benefit of the doubt and leave positive feedback (they fulfilled their obligations). Then work together to sort things out.

eBay transactions need to be more cooperative and feedback should reflect the conduct of the particpants. It shouldn't be a punitive, tit-for-tat type thing.

(Just so we're clear, I'm not suggesting that you're a bad eBayer or attempting to impugn your character. I'm just stating my general opinion.)

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:42 pm

The trouble is... would you give good feedback to someone handing over a wodge of cash in person before you'd even checked out if said payment was legit? Before you'd even cashed the cheque for example?

Sadly I've seen a number of people I know royally fucked over by leaving the buyer positive feedback upon payment and then getting chargeback on the Paypal payment. They have no comeback, they have no way to leave feedback saying "this buyer is a ripoff douche bag, avoid!". Once you leave feedback, eBay most often considers that the be all saying that you are happy that the transaction has completed successfully.

My girlfriend's been done over twice, one time the guy even resold the item he stole on eBay the following week!

(yes, that's Kris, whom Jeff knows, I'll get around to meeting you eventually mate!)

To me the transaction ain't over until the item is in the possession of the buyer and they are happy with what they have received... and if I don't know the buyer (as in I don't know them personally or they've not bought from me before), then I trust them about as far as I can throw them...

Post by **Jeff-20** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:45 pm

What if feedback was blind and cumpulsory? That way, you wouldn't know what feedback was left for you and because you are required to do it (let's say within a certain time limit or not at all)... you can remove the possibility of retallitory feedback. Just an idea; I'm not sure I would like that system.

PaulQ · Post by **PaulQ** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:47 pm

To play devil's advocate, it is possible that a buyer wins an auction, pays for it, then claim to have never received the product (even though it was sent to the correct address) and try to make a claim to get their money back from paypal. Such a buyer might actually be scamming you, but since you've already left positive feedback, there's little else you can do to protect other sellers.

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:13 pm

That's why you always send packages with a signature required. No way they can claim the package wasn't received. And if they claim someone forged their signature, you can file a claim with the post office for the value of the goods, stating that the delivery person did not get proper ID from the signer....

As for a feedback system: how about NO feedback is revealed until BOTH parties enter feedback. Once they both do, the feedback is revealed. Then no one can retaliate....both seller and buyer enter their feedback "blind".

Post by **Jeff-20** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:31 pm

ral-clan wrote:both seller and buyer enter their feedback "blind".

That's what I was tyring to say in the post above. I just couldn't get the wording right.

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:45 pm

Mayhem wrote:The trouble is... would you give good feedback to someone handing over a wodge of cash in person before you'd even checked out if said payment was legit? Before you'd even cashed the cheque for example?

Perhaps I should have said, once the seller receives payment rather than one the buyer makes payment. Legally, payment has not been received until the recipient is in possession of the funds so I wouldn't expect a seller to leave positive feedback until a cheque has cleared (the same way I wouldn't expect them to ship before the cheque has cleared). As for PayPal, you've identified a clear flaw in the system. The solution seems obvious. If payment is reversed, the feedback should automatically be removed. This is easily accomplished now that eBay owns PayPal.

It's an unfortunate reality but those intent on defrauding a system will always be one step ahead of those intent on protecting it.

MacbthPSW · Post by **MacbthPSW** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:12 pm

gklinger wrote:See, I don't think that's right. When a buyer buys something on eBay their half of the deal includes one and only one thing: payment. Once the buyer makes payment, the seller should give them positive feedback.

This is a common opinion, but I don't think it's correct. The buyer's obligation goes beyond payment: they need to receive the goods in an honest manner, and if there is a problem, they need to follow the correct protocol to resolve the issue. If they don't do this, then they're not a "good" buyer, and don't deserve positive feedback.

eBay used to point this out fairly explicitly on their website, I see they've softened the language lately, and this is the most firm statement I could find:
http://answercenter.ebay.com/thread.jsp ... 8592792176

See point #7 - When To Leave Feedback.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:42 am

@Ral-clan, I always do for expensive foreign airmailing items, full online tracking and signature required.

However it's prohibitively expensive here to do so for every package I would send out, and would scare bidders away if I listed the costs in my auction to such. Even if I explained why, they'd probably still think I was trying to scam on shipping costs and not bid. Remember, higher shipping costs usually = less interest.

(for the record, it would cost me roughly an extra 5 pounds, or almost US$10 to send tracked and signature abroad on any item compared to normal airmail. Would YOU pay that much extra when looking to buy from eBay? I know a lot of buyers would be put off)