Denial

Just an observation:

I am making my first real program with expanded memory. Just 3k. But WOW! What a difference it makes. It seems like I will never run out of memory. Now every little detail of my program (a game) has sound effects and animation!

Do Denial members prefer to program with or without memory expansion? And does anyone ever notice a slight (very very slight) slow-down with larger memory like a 16k cart?

No, you get a speed-up with expansion memory! ( http://user.tninet.se/~pug510w/datormuseum/qbench.html )

Even more so if handling arrays etc if you have some free memory instead of running near "out of memory".

I've written exactly one VIC-20 game (Splatform) and I preferred using the expanded RAM just because of all the time and grief it saved me. I think it *might* still be possible to write a version for the unexpanded VIC, but it hurts my brain thinking about how I'd pull it off.

I'm pretty used to writing games that are quite tight when they sit on disk (see my 64 games: Splatform, Marz, Bounced64, Minima, and Minima Reloaded) but when they run they use a good percentage of the 64k that the C64 has. For example, a fairly small algorithm in Minima generates a 24k game map.

I suppose I could take a different approach; my take has developed from trying to make the most of my platform in the Minigame compos.

Since I've been playing with the CC65 compiler, I found that unexpanded is just too small. I've been considering 16k expansion as standard. I'd even like to write something that takes advantage of the full 32k expansions available...but I guess I should finish something first.

i used to try and max. out the vic in RAM, but i think that was more of a case of getting off on seeing how much memory i had than actually needing that much.

i now just use the 3K expander, and along with the 80 column card and prog. aid, life is sweet

I would say it's better to write programs for the 8k expansion than for the 3k expansion, because more people have 8k, and 16k and 32k... but 3k is pretty unusual...

the 3k expansion seems to work perfectly with my setup, whereas anything more seems to cause problems with all the other cards on my vic.

I like RAM expansion in principle for some of the great games it has allowed (Sworf of Fargoal, etc.).

However, when programming, I currently prefer an unexpanded VIC, or a 3K VIC, because it doesn't alter the memory map --- which means greater compatibility, and an easier learning curve for me.

Of the two programs I've done (both games for my daughter) I have never had to go outside an unexpanded VIC, because the games have been simple. I *would* use the extra 3K (or maybe even 8K) if I suddenly ran out of memory, but this would be because of sloppy programming. My ultimate intent would be to go back over the code once the game was running and tighten it up to run on an unexpanded VIC.

Interesting to hear you've gone into the land of RAM PACKS, Jeff!

Yeah, I'm suprised too! But I like RAM packs now.

Boray wrote:I would say it's better to write programs for the 8k expansion than for the 3k expansion, because more people have 8k, and 16k and 32k... but 3k is pretty unusual...

Really?? I thought everyone here would have a 3k cart. Am I wrong to make that assumption?

Yes. 8K or more is probably much more common than 3K. For example, eslapion's memory expander supports 8K, 16K, 24K and 32K, but not 3K so anyone who buys one of those will miss out if you make software that relies on 3K expansion.

Haven't we made a poll on this before? Maybe it is time for another one, with these four options:

* Don't own any memory expansion
* Only owns a 3K expansion
* Only owns a 8K expansion or better
* Owns memory expansion that can cover both

Yes, I posted a poll once... Where is it?

Can't find it... Well, post a new poll with those options then Carlsson. Maybe the last option should be "Owns memory expansion(s) that can cover both"

..and I was almost finished with my 3k game.

Most of the Compute magazine programs for the Vic 20 that require expansion memory typically call for 8k or better. Also, you can add me to the list of people who have an 8k expander...I just won one on e-bay (along with an original Vicmodem) for a buck!

Jeff-20 wrote:..and I was almost finished with my 3k game.

Well, I have a 3k expansion, and want to play your game, if it matters

But yeah, 8k+ expansions seem more common. I like how all the 8k+ expansions work the same way, kind of how I would have expected expansions to work all along (like on the PET).