More Common: 2-prong or CR?

[ral-clan]

What's more common, 2-prong VICs or Cost-Reduced VICs?

I have six VIC-20s and five of them are 2-prong. I rarely see CR VICs here in Canada, but I know they are around.

The CR VIC came relatively late, didn't it (i.e. after the C64's release)?

[MacbthPSW]

FWIW, I have 11 VIC-20s and 8 of them are 2-prong.

[Schlowski]

I think in germany the CR are more common, I have 4 VICs and only one is 2-prong.
And as far as I remember most VICs in the past where CR too.

[Schema]

I have five VICs, two are CR and three of them are 2-prong. One of the CRs is my original from 20 years ago, bought at Canadian Tire, and the other one I got from TPUG a couple of years ago.

All three of the 2-prongers were given to me, two of them from the US. They also have the PET-style square keys.

Also, I had a good look through TPUG's entire VIC collection (about a dozen) a year or so ago, and they seemed to be half CR and half 2-prong.

[carlsson]

At what point in time did Commodore make the CR model? Are there boards with DIN style power that are not cost reduced in other matters? Given that the C64 was released during summer/fall 1982 IIRC, the "new" VICs should've appeared around then, or perhaps by Christmas 1982. Or did they manufacture two-prong VICs even longer, a bit into 1983?

[a1bert]

What's more common, 2-prong VICs or Cost-Reduced VICs?

One out of my four VIC20's uses DIN connector, three are 2-prong.

-Pasi

[Jeff-20]

I strongly prefer the DIN-equipped models.

[ral-clan]

I strongly prefer the DIN-equipped models.

Why a strong preference?

I prefer the two prong...but that's for no logical reason, purely sentimental. The two prong unit was the kind I had originally, with the brass sticker, older power switch, etc.

But perhaps the DIN style is superior from a technical standpoint.

[eslapion]

I may be wrong but... from what I know, the CR was introduced in early 1983 which means that...

Approximately 1 million VICs were made with a 2 prong power connector and approximately 1.5 million VICs were made with DIN connectors.

Of those with 2 prong connector, about the first half had the keyboards with squarish keys and bulky metallic power supplies and the other half used the ones with suction cups and smaller cube like plastic power supplies.

Also, a small fraction of the ones made with DIN connectors are incompatible with a real C64 power supply. They need the 9 Vdc required for the datasette to be fed from one of the unused connections of the 7 pin DIN connector. If connected to a real C64 power supply then the datasette will not work.

However, it is worth noting that by the time the CR was released, the price tag of the VIC had considerably reduced. Therefore these VICs were considered less valuable and so more of them were trashed when they became obsolete after 1984-1985. Most people did not even bother trying to sell them, they just put them in the garbage.

The last new VICs I saw on sale were at a Miracle Mart for 100$ can. during the summer of 1985. Their serial numbers just above 2.5 million.

[Alan]

I strongly prefer the DIN-equipped models.

Why a strong preference?

I have three VICs and all of them are the 2-prong model. I have always had a problem with the 2-prong connectors fitting very loosly in the socket on the side of the VIC. It's very easy to brush against it and accidentally lose power to the computer. This is true of the VICs I have now and it was also true of the VIC I had back in the day. I wrap a couple layers of black electrical tape around the plug so that it fits tighter.

I would imagine the DIN-equipped VICs avoid this problem. Also, do the DIN VICs run as hot as the 2-prong ones?

[Jeff-20]

As Alan said. It's a more secure fit. My nostalgia also goes to the DIN models because that was my childhood VIC. I also suspect the on-screen colors may be different.

[Jaicen]

AFAIK, the later VIC's used an improved VIC chip that ran cooler. It could therefore have a plastic package, thus reducing costs. Apparently it's less succeptible to interference too, but I don't have any experience either way.
In the UK, as far as I know, the later CR VIC's are more common. I've never personally seen any of the very early ones, and all that come up on ebay are the very late ones with the multi-colour paper labels.

[ral-clan]

In the UK, as far as I know, the later CR VIC's are more common. I've never personally seen any of the very early ones, and all that come up on ebay are the very late ones with the multi-colour paper labels.

How does that jibe with the North American "coloured lines" labels? In North America we had the early brass metal labels and the later "coloured lines" plastic labels.

We never had the paper labels with the big multi-colour VIC-20 logo. Actually, I've never had a good look at one. Could someone post a nice close-up of the European label?

[eslapion]

... do the DIN VICs run as hot as the 2-prong ones?

No they don't.

AFAIK, the later VIC's used an improved VIC chip that ran cooler. It could therefore have a plastic package, thus reducing costs.

And no, no, no and no, its NOT for that reason. I must point out here that ALL VIC-20s have a plastic package. And if you are referring to the VIC chip itself then be informed that only the VIC-IIs early revisions had a ceramic package. I have NEVER seen a ceramic 6560 or 6561 even in the oldest VICs I have opened. ALL VIC CHIPS PRODUCE EXACTLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF HEAT.

As I believe I have said time and time again, the reason why VICs with 2 prong power supplies produce more heat is very simple. Back then, linear voltage regulators were used. Switching was very expensive.

In essence, a voltage regulator had to "absorb" or convert into heat the voltage drop between the transformer's output and the 5Vdc required by all CMOS/TTL chips used in the computer. It is this regulator, that looks like a double thickness nickel with 2 bolts holding it in place, that produces almost all the heat. It is labeled LM323 or sometimes 7805.

In the older VICs, that regulator was inside the VIC. In the VIC-CR and the commodore 64, it is the power supply itself which produces more heat because it contains that voltage regulator.

The VIC-1540, VIC-1541 and 1541 floppy drives contain 2 regulators like that. One for the 5V supply and the other for the 12V supply and that is why these drives also produce so much heat.

A few months ago, I suggested the possibility of replacing these old linear regulators with high efficiency switching regulators that do just as good a job but produce virtually no heat.

[a1bert]

AFAIK, the later VIC's used an improved VIC chip that ran cooler. It could therefore have a plastic package, thus reducing costs.

The VIC-I chips are identical. Ceramic and plastic are just different packages. With large chips and low volumes it is cheaper to use ceramic packages, and it has one advantage: you can very easily open the "hood" to make adjustments and fixes to the chip without a new processing. With a device a lot like an electron microscope you can "go in", cut traces and build new ones.

With enough volume the plastic package is cheaper. Of course this fixing is also possible with plastic packages with a special acid, but I don't know if they did this back then.

-Pasi