EBAY!

[rork]

There's another thing that everyone should be aware of and this is important: All bids are contracts to buy the item for that price. What that means is if you bid $10 for an item and someone comes along and bids $11 and wins the auction, you are still obligated to pay $10 if the seller decides they would rather sell to you than the highest bidder. A friend of mine bid on an item and lost the auction so they bid on a similar item. They won that auction and completed their transaction. Then the seller from the first auction was unable to close the deal with their top bidder so they contacted my friend. He informed them he didn't want the item as he had already bought another. They told him all bids were binding and that if he didn't make good on it they would take him to court. Shockingly, eBay agreed with the seller! My friend refused and eBay locked his account (he never got sued, thank goodness). Few people realize this is the case with eBay and if more people did, I suspect they would revolt. There is no time limit on your bids and the closing of an auction does not remove your obligation. How freaky is that?

Holly crap! I didn't know that indeed. And I considered myself an experienced eBay'er.

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with eBay. I've had a couple of pretty bad transactions myself (as a buyer). As a matter of fact, I'm afraid I'm in the middle of another one...

However, I still think that eBay is an awesome place to get some things cheap. You just have to be careful and watch people's feedback (including seemingly perfect score with several "outliers"—it seems that some people do that on purpose—in general, they are OK, but from time to time, they'll rip somebody off and then they'll blame it on the other person saying "not my fault! look at my other feedback!").

[ral-clan]

Maybe a moderator could move this discussion into a seperate thread on Ebay.

The worst thing about Ebay (well, not necessarily Ebay's fault) is that a lot of people try to profit through inflated shipping charges. I bought a VIC-20 item for $5 and the seller charged my $16US to ship it. When I got the package the post mark on it was $4.83US. So that means $12 shipping and handling! A bit excessive even if you factor in a few bucks for gas and materials. I gave him neutral (not even negative) feedback, explaining this and he got slightly abusive with me. He claimed that I shouldn't have agreed to the shipping if I was going to complain about it afterwards. I explained that I agreed with the shipping charges under the assumption that's what it would have cost to actually SHIP the item (plus a few bucks for S&H). Finding out the ACTUAL shipping costs were so out of line with what was charged was what irked me.

[rork]

Maybe a moderator could move this discussion into a seperate thread on Ebay.

Yeah, we're getting kinda off topic here...

The worst thing about Ebay (well, not necessarily Ebay's fault) is that a lot of people try to profit through inflated shipping charges. I bought a VIC-20 item for $5 and the seller charged my $16US to ship it. When I got it the package the post mark on it was $4.83US. So that means $12 shipping and handling! A bit excessive even if you factor in a few bucks for gas and materials. I gave him neutral (not even negative) feedback, explaining this and he got slightly abusive with me. He claimed that I shouldn't have agreed to the shipping if I was going to complain about it afterwards. I explained that I agreed with the shipping charges under the assumption that's what it would have cost to actually SHIP the item (plus a few bucks for S&H). Finding out the ACTUAL shipping costs were so out of line with what was charged was what irked me.

This is pretty much what's happening to me at the moment. I paid $19.99 for S&H (which, obviously, I had agreed to when I placed my bid). On top of that, when I received an invoice from the seller, I realized that he charged me additional $5 for insurance, which he'd failed to mention in the auction. When I pointed it out to him as well as the fact that 5 bucks was way too much for insurance (I'd checked it with USPS), he apologized an lowered it to $2.80, which I paid (total of 22.79 S&H + insurance). When I got the package, not only did I find out that the shipping was only about 8 bucks, but also that he never got the insurance he'd charged me for! WTH!? So, now I'm torn between leaving him negative feedback (maybe neutral, because the item was fine and I got it fast) and risking getting a negative mark on my account in return (so far, I have a perfect score). I still haven't decided what to do...

[ral-clan]

So, now I'm torn between leaving him negative feedback (maybe neutral, because the item was fine and I got it fast) and risking getting a negative mark on my account in return (so far, I have a perfect score). I still haven't decided what to do...

Yeah, that's the thing....since you have to leave feedback first, he could always respond with a scathing revenge feedback "DDD---- SUPER BAAAD EBAYYYYER!!!! AVOID". Notice these people (people who do ebay for a living) are very careful never to leave feedback first. You might want to wait until he files feedback (if he ever does) and then file your neutral comments. If he requests feedback (and often they do) then ask that he leave it first.

Probably the best bet though is to bring it up with him and see if it can be straigtened out (i.e. couple bucks refund). If not then maybe a second message saying you are tempted to leave negative feedback if the issue is not resolved. Since Ebay is his/her life, they might be willing to give you the refund to avoid that.

[Jeff-20]

(split the topic)

Everytime I left negative feedback, I got negative feedback as revenge (even when I felt it was totally undeserved). I hate that! Now I have 4 negatives. I know someone with nearly 2000 feedback and not one negative, but he has had to put up with a lot of shit (costly shit as I understand, including mailing free items).

I guess feedback is not as important to me. If I really want an item, I'll get it. I expect the seller to have a few negatives, but it will not stop me from buying unless it is really bad (for example, these guys!) But otherwise, I don't really pay attention to it if they're overall feedback number is 10 or higher.

[gklinger]

The tit-for-tat feedback system is inherently flawed and because you're limited to a single line, you can't leave a meaningful comment. The way to fix the system would be to eliminate the comments and give people a simple score. Something like x/y where y is the number of transactions a person has been involved in and x would either be x-1 for a bad transaction or x+1 for a good transaction. I'm sure eBay could come up with an even better system if they wanted to but there's the rub. As long as the money keeps flowing and there is no serious competition, eBay keeps chugging along denying that there are any problems.

Want more proof that eBay is a joke? Check this out. Here's an idea! Put something up for sale at a ridiculous price to get lots of people to view the auction and sprinkle the info field with the URLs of people who are paying you to advertise for them. Instant eyeballs.

[ruud]

.... and there is no serious competition, ....

Here in the Netherlands we have two very big ones:
http://www.marktplaats.nl/ (market place)
http://www.2dehands.nl/ (second hand)

[rork]

The tit-for-tat feedback system is inherently flawed...

Yep, I agree. I always thought that perhaps blocking the buyer from leaving feedback until the seller has posted theirs would alleviate the problem a little. Then at least, you as the buyer, would be judged based on what really should matter to the seller--you paying promptly or not.

...and because you're limited to a single line, you can't leave a meaningful comment.

Another good point. I've actually thought about setting up a website somewhere explaining the situation (with copies of my payment, emails, and whatnot) and just giving a link to that website as my comment. What do you think about this idea?

[Jeff-20]

Do you think people would be concerned enough to check it? If you were selling an item I wanted, your feedback would not discourage me. And of course, if you were willing to buy something from me, I wouldn't cancel your bid. Actually, if that previous transaction concerned me at all, I would just send you a message through the "contact user" system, and ask you about it. I would see if your tone came back sounding rational and calm. IF so, I'd trust you without being concerned about the negatives.

[Jeff-20]

Here in the Netherlands we have two very big ones:
http://www.marktplaats.nl/ (market place)
http://www.2dehands.nl/ (second hand)

Cool, but everything looks misspelled... just kidding!
Do you think many would ship international?

Want more proof that eBay is a joke? Check this out.

Remember that NeoGeo cart that went for a ba-jillion dollars? What was it and who bought it? I thought it was Mayhem.

Mayhem? Did you buy a billion dollar neogeo cart? And more importantly, are you going to buy that Atlantis 2 cart?

[Schema]

My problem with sniping is that it's usually automated. If you and some other person are having a last-second click war, that's one thing, but programming a script to do it for you is a bit subversive somehow. Effective, but subversive.

I can't participate in heated auctions anymore without being reminded of The Red Violin.

[rork]

Do you think people would be concerned enough to check it?

Yeah, that's a good point. I know that I'd be interested to find out what it's all about, but probably not everybody else. I guess I shouldn't worry about it too much. So long, my perfect score...

Actually, I just sent the seller quite a lengthy email asking for an explanation and my $2.80 back! You know, it's not about the money, but it's a matter of principle. We'll see what he says...

[rork]

My problem with sniping is that it's usually automated. If you and some other person are having a last-second click war, that's one thing, but programming a script to do it for you is a bit subversive somehow. Effective, but subversive.

Nope. I always do it, if I do it, manually. Wait till the last 30 seconds or so and then place my bid. If I lose, oh well...

I can't participate in heated auctions anymore without being reminded of The Red Violin.

I haven't seen this movie, but it sounds interesting. I'll make sure to check it out.

[Jeff-20]

Are automated snipers commercial services or programs I can download? I know about a few commercial services, but who wants to pay extra and not win? Are there any user programs that could do the same thing?

[Mayhem]

Yep there are programs out there but of course you'll need your PC on and connected to the net for them to work at the appropriate time.

Mayhem? Did you buy a billion dollar neogeo cart? And more importantly, are you going to buy that Atlantis 2 cart?

Heh, nope I didn't buy the NeoGeo cart (not my system) and I won't be buying any Atlantis 2 either. Actually I've actively trying to sell/trade off most of my rare 2600 games including Eli's Ladder, Malagai and Quadrun (if anyone is interested, please let me know). About the only rare stuff I'm keeping are the Atari Club silver label releases and the Quadrun I got signed by programmer Steve Woita...