EBAY!

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:24 pm

Well, someone sniped me on an ebay auction for a Data 20 videopak.
He literally did it in the last four seconds of the auction. That's one of the reasons I am turned off by Ebay (although I realise it's within the 'rules' to do so).

Anyway, the interesting thing about this 80 column card was that it seemed to be different hardware than what most of the members here have. It had 16K, and a strange 3 or 4 contact edge connector on the back end. Also the case had some slots for head dissipation and within that you can see a metal part that is not present in my Data-20/Protecto bard.

http://tinyurl.com/ygb3tk

That link is to the auction. If you scroll down you can see the larger photo of the device.

Would have been nice to open this up and document its hardware.

These things seem to be in demand. If anyone ever reverse engineered one they'd do a real service to the VIC community...not to mention the fact that they could probably sell some!

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:11 pm

I never understood why sniping makes people so angry. He couldn't have sniped you if you had been willing to pay more than he was so didn't the auction work out as intended? If you put in the most you're willing to pay when you first make a bid you can sit back and relax. Getting swept up in the auction and bidding more than you would like (or can afford) to is a bad idea.

Anyway, it's a shame that you didn't get the card. I saw Leif's 80 column card once and I was *very* impressed. It would have been interesting to see comparative screenshots. Were there ever any 80 column cards that supported colour?

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:26 pm

gklinger wrote:I never understood why sniping makes people so angry.

Yeah, I know, I'm not really mad. I put in my top bid and, frankly, I was expecting to be sniped because I've seen it happen so much before. There's always someone out there for who money is no object so I consider Ebay a great place for sellers, but not so good for people who want to buy stuff at a good price.

I put in my maximum bid and was outbid, so no hard feelings. There's something about sniping though that just seems 'sneaky'.

It's a totally irrational reaction I know!

Yeah, I know what you mean about getting carried away with auctions. For me the VIC-20 is fun because it's a cheap, cool hobby. I love restoring and using hardware that other people are ready to throw out. If I end up spending an arm and a leg on stuff it takes away the fun for me.

Anyway, no big loss for me, it was to be a spare card anyway. But I would really have liked to get a look under the hood! I suspect it would have been pretty much the same as the Data-20 Display Manager, output wise. Had some curious differences though from the little I could tell.

Post by **Jeff-20** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:32 pm

I hate snipers too. I am one of those people who stays up late to watch an auction close. If ebay allows it, then it should just be a blind auction for everyone.

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:35 pm

Jeff-20 wrote:I hate snipers too. I am one of those people who stays up late to watch an auction close. If ebay allows it, then it should just be a blind auction for everyone.

Sorry, I don't really follow....what do you mean by that last sentence?

I think it would be an improvement if Ebay changed things so you couldn't snipe though. In a real person-to-person auction you can't snipe. When the auctioneer gets a high bid he always gives the rest of the crowd a chance to consider (...going...going...gone...etc.). The auctioneer doesn't abide a clock. Ebay could eliminate sniping by implementing some sort of feature that would always add 2 minutes to the clock every time a bid was placed. Thereby, if someone placed a high bid in the last second of the auction, it would give everyone else a chance to see it and still a minute or two to counter bid.

Seems like it would be good for both sellers (would probably mean higher price garnered) and good for buyers. Anyway, I try to stay away from Ebay, but darn they have some pretty cool VIC stuff sometimes! (where else am I ever going to find a VIC-1020?

)

PhotoJim · Post by **PhotoJim** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:22 am

I really like the idea of the auction being extended as long as there are bids. Maybe we should start another topic to discuss that issue.

I've sniped a couple of times myself, but mostly, unless it's something that's really rare and expensive, sniping isn't necessary. I just continue to be patient and keep looking.

Post by **Jeff-20** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:07 pm

ral-clan wrote:
Jeff-20 wrote:I hate snipers too. I am one of those people who stays up late to watch an auction close. If ebay allows it, then it should just be a blind auction for everyone.
Sorry, I don't really follow....what do you mean by that last sentence?

I guess that didn't make much sense. I think I meant to say that snipers make it pretty much a blind auction (the kind where everyone writes down what they are willing to pay secretly, and the highest bid wins-- this cheats a potential buyer of the opportunity to reconsider his or her high bid based on the bids of others). I think snipers may keep prices too low for this reason.

Your idea is great for extended time is great.

6502dude · Post by **6502dude** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:32 pm

Jeff-20 wrote:Your idea is great for extended time is great.

I don't think this is such a hot idea.

Without a finite end time, this reminds me of "hanging chads"

Post by **Jeff-20** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:54 pm

[flip flop] I guess some sellers have a limited ammount of time to sell an item. I would be a little annoyed if an auction dragged on for a few weeks

[/flip flop]

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:32 pm

Yeah....but if it just adds a few minutes for each bid it will be maybe 15 more minutes total to the auction. Most auctions probably get 8 or 9 bids. Popular ones maybe 50 bids.

So it's not really adding a lot.

In fact, the extended two minutes could be limited to apply to new high bids only, and only those high bids placed in the last 15 minutes of the auction.

Jogi · Post by **Jogi** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:09 am

Hi,

what is your problem?

Ebay.....3.....2.....1.......meins.....

I am Nemetzpower....

Regards Jogi

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:52 am

Jogi wrote:Hi,

what is your problem?

Ebay.....3.....2.....1.......meins.....

I am Nemetzpower....

Regards Jogi

Ah well! At least it went to someone who is going to give it a good home

! I figure most of the time when I lose a bid on VIC-20 Ebay stuff it goes to someone on Denial. Anyway, could please you give us a scan of the inside when you get it? Pretty please

.

Thanks

!

rork · Post by **rork** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:06 pm

gklinger wrote:I never understood why sniping makes people so angry.

Frankly, I don't get that either...

I admit I've done it several times myself as well as have fallen a victim to it. Usually, I try to decide on the maximum amount of money I'm willing to pay for an auction, bid, and stick to it. However, if I really want something, I may wait until the last several seconds. Why? It's rather simple really. I want to avoid having people bid on something I want just because they think they might be able to outbid me, even though they don't really want to pay more than they've already bid. You know how it works: you place your bid, then somebody outbids you, so you think "maybe just one more dollar; maybe two," and before you know it, you end up paying more than you actually wanted to. If somebody shoots you down in the last few seconds, you don't have the time to make that mistake.

Or, even worse, if the other person is like you, you may and up outbidding each other, which is a recipe for trouble too (I remember a case in which an item had a $40 buy it now option, but two eBay'ers started fighting each other and the auction ended at twice the amount). As I said, I've been a sniper's victim too and for the most part I was actually happy that I didn't end up paying too much. So, you should really thank the snipers for saving you from the "buyer's remorse."

Just my 2 cents...

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:09 pm

rork wrote:So, you should really thank the snipers for saving you from the "buyer's remorse."

Just my 2 cents...

Actually, you're totally right. Many times I've wished a sniper would take the item from me, because I realised I bid too much, or had doubts and realised I was just buying something I didn't need. I've been saved from buyers remorse by snipers too!

I think the last 80 column card I bid on, I ended up being outbid by someone in Toronto: 6502dude?

That was a good thing though, because the EPROM was corrupted, and it landed in the hands of someone who was able to ressurect it - so everyone learned a lot about the way the hardware works!

gklinger · Post by **gklinger** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:01 pm

Let me apologize in advance, this is going to be a long one. I've been holding this in for too long...

I have only done four transactions on eBay (and I've been a member for 7.5 years!) and with half of my transactions ending with bad experiences, I won't be dealing with eBay again. My first two transactions were fine and then things went awry...

I won an auction with a low-ball bid (it was an 'if I get it great and if not, nothing ventured and nothing gained' type situation) and I emailed the seller to arrange payment/shipping. He responded saying he had sold the item to the #2 bidder because I had "refused to pay him". I pointed out that I had said no such thing and added that I had been the only bidder on the item. A week went by and he finally responding saying that he had confused me with someone else and that I should send him a money order. I did and I never heard another thing from him. After a month of the seller ignoring my emails and phone calls I gave up and went to leave feedback only to find that his account was gone. I don't know if he closed it somehow or if eBay did but the system told me the user ID didn't exist. I complained to eBay, they ignored me and I filled out a complaint with the post office (I used a postal money order) and their investigation went nowhere. End result? I was out a few hundred dollars.

I didn't go near eBay for a few years after that incident. Then one day I decided I really wanted a very specific item so I returned to eBay, bid on and won said item for a relatively low price (again, I was the only bidder). They didn't respond to my emails or phone calls for a week and then sent me a profanity laced email saying their lawyer was going to sue me (?) and that I had messed with the wrong person. Interestingly, they relisted their item and managed to sell it for double my winning bid and judging by the feedback, that transaction sailed through smoothly). The whole thing was ridiculous. I left them negative feedback and they did the same to me. I kept an eye on their feedback and found they did the same thing to quite a few people. I even went so far as to contact everyone involved and we sent a group complaint to eBay insisting they wipe out the negative feedback we received. They ignored us.

I believe that in both cases I ran into sellers who hadn't used reserve prices and were displeased with the final selling price so they deceptively avoided meeting their obligation to sell. While eBay goes to great lengths to make sure buyers fufill their obligations, sellers are seldom chastised for breaking the rules. Of course, sellers are the ones that pay eBay fees so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what is going on.

There's another thing that everyone should be aware of and this is important: All bids are contracts to buy the item for that price. What that means is if you bid $10 for an item and someone comes along and bids $11 and wins the auction, you are still obligated to pay $10 if the seller decides they would rather sell to you than the highest bidder. A friend of mine bid on an item and lost the auction so they bid on a similar item. They won that auction and completed their transaction. Then the seller from the first auction was unable to close the deal with their top bidder so they contacted my friend. He informed them he didn't want the item as he had already bought another. They told him all bids were binding and that if he didn't make good on it they would take him to court. Shockingly, eBay agreed with the seller! My friend refused and eBay locked his account (he never got sued, thank goodness). Few people realize this is the case with eBay and if more people did, I suspect they would revolt. There is no time limit on your bids and the closing of an auction does not remove your obligation. How freaky is that?

Anyway, it has been three years and I haven't been back to eBay since. I'm sitting with two positive feedbacks and one negative (see here if you're really bored). Even if I were to do a thousand positive transactions, I would still have an unjustified black mark on my account. That, more than the frauds I was exposed to, is the reason I won't have anything more to do with eBay. To hell with them.