Modern Vic uses

Jaicen · Post by **Jaicen** » Sat May 06, 2006 5:04 am

Hey guys, i'm new around here so Hi to everyone!
Basically I was wondering if anybody could help me out with a few ideas really.
I'm not quite old enough to be an original Vic user, I cut my teeth on the C64 which I love more than anything! I recently got another old C64 bullnose, and thrown in with that was a Vic 20 with a broken keyboard.
Now, having never used one before I can't say I have any particular use for it in mind. The c64 is going to become a MidiboxSID synth so I can use the keyboard from that for the Vic, but then what do I do with it??
I've been looking at the VicTracker program, but I can't seem to do anything with it at all! I also downloaded the Synthesound program but I can't get that to run.
All that is pretty much a roundabout way of asking wether anyone has any uses for the Vic that are relevant to modern life. I'm a musician, so sound apps are my main focus, but i'm open to suggestions.
Thanks for the help guys,
*j

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Sat May 06, 2006 8:20 am

The VIC sound chip (actually part of the VIC chip which does a lot of other things) only produces square waveforms (and noise). (Actually it can produce some other strange waveforms but this is more complicated - and not discovered until recently). Still, the square waves can sound pretty cool if you like a retro-electronic sound.

The only really usable music software for the VIC would be VIC-Tracker. In fact in can be synced to a sequencer (via Midi Time Code or MIDI Clock - can't remember) if you make a special cable and have a DIN-SYNC to MIDI converter box....

You can't trigger notes on the VIC-20 this way, you can only sync your VIC-Tracker compositions with your external MIDI gear/sequencer/drum machine this way.

Would be nice if someone designed a MIDI interface and software which would make the VIC a MIDI instrument, but maybe this is asking too much.

There was also a company which, in the 1980s, took VIC-20s and modified them to act as Master control devices (sending SYNC signals and Start/Stop signals to external gear slaved via MIDI Time Code and SMPTE).

Boray · Post by **Boray** » Sat May 06, 2006 9:17 am

ral-clan wrote:The only really usable music software for the VIC would be VIC-Tracker.

I wouldn't call it usable, because it's too difficult to make any music with it. And my suggestions for improving the editor... well seems he didn't like them...

I would say the main thing you can use the vic-20 for is to program it. Make your own programs and games. It's simple design makes it much easier than the c64... And you can actually make really enjoyable games in basic because of the better speed, simpler pokes and bigger graphics.

...Another thing is of course to play all those old great games!!! & Watch those new cool demos etc...

/Anders

Jaicen · Post by **Jaicen** » Sun May 07, 2006 4:27 am

Well I did do a little programming of my old C64 back in the day, and I imagine it would be a fair bit omre userfriendly to program in an emulator now. Unfortunately, I don't really have the time or inclination to learn to program in basic. I don't have the patience to spend ten minutes loading something in anymore either, unless it's something spectacular (ie, Rick Dangerous, tho I have that on cart

). I fear i'd lose interest before I reached a point at which I was able to do anything useful.
To be honest, I think the Vic may end up being a bit of a case donor, i'm not even sure it works since I don't have the modulator either.
On a lighter note, I did manage to get the vic tracker to make some noise, which I guess is a start

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Sun May 07, 2006 10:13 am

If you have a display that takes composite video, you can make a cable so you don't need the RF modulator.

vic-tracker is a bit special to work with, partly due to the limited horizontal resolution ending in a bit odd syntax. Other VIC-20 musics seem to have been done with cross-development tools, i.e. a player routine linked with music data generated externally (like I do). You may want to try Fisichella too, it is not as extensive as vic-tracker but maybe easier to use and you can get some interesting effects out of it.

Member aneurysm has previously posted about a home-made program to make noises mixing it with DJ equipment, but I don't think there is any sync involved in the process. Considering the VIC chip has limited frequency resolution, even creating a MIDI interface and turning it into a synthesizer of some sorts may be pretty limited use.

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Sun May 07, 2006 7:37 pm

carlsson wrote:You may want to try Fisichella too, it is not as extensive as vic-tracker but maybe easier to use and you can get some interesting effects out of it.

I downloaded some of the files from Aleksi Eeben's web-site. Holy crap! Some of those things I didn't even know were possible on a VIC-20! The loop editor seemed to play actual drum samples. I didn't even think the VIC was capable of this! (It was an 8K programe too!).

Boray · Post by **Boray** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:00 am

Jaicen wrote:I don't have the patience to spend ten minutes loading something in anymore either, unless it's something spectacular

Don't you have a diskdrive?

Jaicen · Post by **Jaicen** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:55 am

Nope, no diskdrive, though I remember lusting after one when I was younger

I too downloaded some stuff from Aleksi's site, but a large portion of it I can't get running. None of the Vic programs works in Vice, unless there's some key to setting it up that I don't know. To be honest I think i'm just wanting to use it because I have it. Maybe I should just download some games...

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Mon May 08, 2006 6:43 am

As far as I know, only a few demos (and games) refuse to work in VICE. The default memory settings is +8K, but perhaps the programs you try to run are for unexpanded machine?

It is fully possible to play 4-bit (and maybe higher resolution?) samples on the VIC-20, but also using the built-in sound in rapid changes to create awesome effects.

Schema · Post by **Schema** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:38 am

ral-clan wrote:The loop editor seemed to play actual drum samples. I didn't even think the VIC was capable of this! (It was an 8K programe too!).

The VIC20 can play drum samples just fine - check out my 512-byte drum sample demo.

http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bul ... php?t=1075

I've used the VIC onstage before - you can get some wild droning/beating sounds by playing with the frequencies, which is great for some ambient material.

A neat trick is setting 255 into any of the frequency registers which actually creates a tone slightly lower than the lowest that voice would otherwise make. Combine it with the other voices at the lowest frequency (127) and you get some neat sounds.

Jaicen · Post by **Jaicen** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:51 am

Well, success it would appear!
I went into VICE and disabled all the extended RAM and everything works again. I tried a game called Dragonwing as well, which is excellent. Far better than i'd been expecting from such a lowly machine.
I got Fisichella making noise as well, but I don't quite understand how it works yet. Could be a winner though, sounds a lot like Nanoloop but better. I wonder if it can be sync'd like VicTracker.
Schema, that sample sounds awesome. It' just the sort of analogue-esque drum tone that i'd use. How did you create it?