I haven't been on the boards as much as I like the past week because I ran across a fellow in a local electronics store who was looking for a good home for some CP/M systems he had.
About 15 years ago I sold off my Kaypro systems and I've missed them ever since. My Kaypro 10 was among my favorite computers of all I've ever owned. Here are some of the ones that have left a mark on me:
The IBM 1130--a personal computer before its day. The first computer I ever programmed (in 1972, in FORTRAN using an 026 keypunch) and a whole different experience from the "Evil" 360.
The COSMAC Elf--my first home computer, programmed in machine language, started with 256 bytes of RAM and later expanded to a staggering 4 and 1/4 K of RAM using SRAMs stripped off of surplus boards picked up at a Hamswap. This was the basis for my later business selling single board computers based on the 1802 CPU running a multitasking OS that I wrote myself (1978-1980.)
The Vic-20--my first "store bought" computer and the computer through which I have converted more non-computer users into computer users and started more new programmers on than any other system I've ever had.
The Kaypro 10--hey, my Kaypro II was really special to me, too. The old Darth Vader Lunchboxes were portable, powerful, well packaged and fun to program. But the Kaypro 10 came with a 10MB hard disk. I had about 8-10 different code development systems on this computer at any given time, as well as all the horizontal software I could ever use. I wrote code like a mad demon on this system, downloaded all sorts of stuff off of BBS's, and never once did I ever run out of hard disk space, or need to clean up the disk. I think I topped out at using 8MB when I cleaned it out before selling it in about 1989.
Anyway, back to the story...
I ran across a fellow at the local electronics shop. He said he had a couple of foundling Kaypros. I followed him home and not only did he give me two highly modified Kaypros, but he also gave me a Big Board I (the "Ferguson") along with a pair of 8" disk drives and software!
I've been spending most of my spare time the past week just going through what I've got and working on it--as well as trying to get it out of the living room before my wife decides to start accidentally kicking it as she walks past.
The two Kaypros turned out to be:
A Kaypro 10 with an Advent TurboROM and a Handyman board, and a bad hard disk. I replaced the hard disk but I haven't formatted it and reinstalled ZCPR yet.
A Kaypro 4 with many mods, I haven't even been through this one entirely yet. It has three floppy drives, a 20MB hard disk, an amber monitor, and what may be a color video output.
A Big Board I with an upgraded floppy disk controller to allow the use of DSDD disks. It's packaged in a very nice terminal housing along with a green screen monitor and full keyboard. It has two 8" DSDD floppy drives. It'll also allow me to finish getting my old 8"-based Compupro 8/16 system up and running again.
For those not familiar with the Big Board, it came out about the same time as the Vic as a kit. It's a Z-80 based system that was the father of the Xerox 820 computer and the grandfather of the Kaypros.
Nothing but fun!
(and it's worth noting that the Vic hasn't been shifted out of its spot to accomodate these systems, though I'm still trying to find room for the Vic's second monitor.)
-Mark G.
CP/M System Windfall
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saundby
- Vic 20 Enthusiast
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Cool to see another CP/M user in this forum!!!
I added TurboRom to my Kaypro10 about 2 months ago.
I have reload disk set (version G). Don Maslin sent them to me from his archive about a year before he passed away. You are welcome to a copy if you need them.
However, I think you may need to install your orginal 81-302 rom in place of TurboRom and then put TruboRom BIOS back after you update system files on hard drive.
I have a version 83 board in my system and would like to add a realtime clock, but haven't got around to building a daughterboard for the project.
I added TurboRom to my Kaypro10 about 2 months ago.
I have reload disk set (version G). Don Maslin sent them to me from his archive about a year before he passed away. You are welcome to a copy if you need them.
However, I think you may need to install your orginal 81-302 rom in place of TurboRom and then put TruboRom BIOS back after you update system files on hard drive.
I have a version 83 board in my system and would like to add a realtime clock, but haven't got around to building a daughterboard for the project.
Mega-Cart: the ultimate cartridge for your Commodore Vic-20-
saundby
- Vic 20 Enthusiast
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- Website: http://saundby.com/
- Location: Gold Country, CA
Kaypro 10
I don't have the original ROM from the Kaypro 10, but I could burn one with an image if it becomes necessary. What I'm going to try to do is build a disk on the Kaypro 4 that will allow me to boot into a patched CP/M and run ADVFMT on the hard disk.
Once that's done I'll start figuring out how to reload the software. I'm hoping I can manage it either by loading off them directly or by making up a set with a patched CP/M on any of the disks that need to be booted. It's been a long time, I don't recall whether the process calls for booting for each disk or just for the initial disk.
I don't think I can format the new disk under FORMAT or K10FMT since I recall those being limited to about 300 cylinders. The drive I have in now is a 40MB with 820 cylinders and 6 heads. So I'd have to use either the Turbo format program or ADVFMT. Fortunately, among the stuff I got was an old AT will Jay Sage's stuff on it. I'm not certain, but I think this was actually Jay Sage's old machine. It looks like all the dev stuff is on there. Likewise, the Kaypro 4 has a bunch of stuff on it. One of the Kaypros used to be Chuck Stafford's, I think it was the 4 since it looks like it used to be a BBS system. Unfortunately the user areas with the download contents appear to have been wiped, but there's still some catalogs in there, and the BBS software itself.
I'm hoping to get the K10 in good shape pretty soon. I don't have room to keep all the systems out and I don't like to put away a system that's not in good order, since it's so easy to forget details of things that need work. I also want to have a working backup system in case anything goes on the 4 and it needs some help from another Kaypro to get it back up and running.
Once the K10 is working and loaded with software and backups of data from the 4 I'll probably set it aside for now and concentrate on the 4, which appears to have all sorts of interesting bits, though I haven't even had time to pop the lid off it yet. I've also got some ideas I'd like to start on with the Big Board. I have a half height rack unit on wheels that I'm thinking of mounting it up in. I also want to add some power relays to the disk drives so that they're not running all the time, and a few other minor things that will make it a much nicer system to use.
-Mark G.
Once that's done I'll start figuring out how to reload the software. I'm hoping I can manage it either by loading off them directly or by making up a set with a patched CP/M on any of the disks that need to be booted. It's been a long time, I don't recall whether the process calls for booting for each disk or just for the initial disk.
I don't think I can format the new disk under FORMAT or K10FMT since I recall those being limited to about 300 cylinders. The drive I have in now is a 40MB with 820 cylinders and 6 heads. So I'd have to use either the Turbo format program or ADVFMT. Fortunately, among the stuff I got was an old AT will Jay Sage's stuff on it. I'm not certain, but I think this was actually Jay Sage's old machine. It looks like all the dev stuff is on there. Likewise, the Kaypro 4 has a bunch of stuff on it. One of the Kaypros used to be Chuck Stafford's, I think it was the 4 since it looks like it used to be a BBS system. Unfortunately the user areas with the download contents appear to have been wiped, but there's still some catalogs in there, and the BBS software itself.
I'm hoping to get the K10 in good shape pretty soon. I don't have room to keep all the systems out and I don't like to put away a system that's not in good order, since it's so easy to forget details of things that need work. I also want to have a working backup system in case anything goes on the 4 and it needs some help from another Kaypro to get it back up and running.
Once the K10 is working and loaded with software and backups of data from the 4 I'll probably set it aside for now and concentrate on the 4, which appears to have all sorts of interesting bits, though I haven't even had time to pop the lid off it yet. I've also got some ideas I'd like to start on with the Big Board. I have a half height rack unit on wheels that I'm thinking of mounting it up in. I also want to add some power relays to the disk drives so that they're not running all the time, and a few other minor things that will make it a much nicer system to use.
-Mark G.
Cool project with Kaypros.
These are great machines to tinker with.
I have a spare ST412 set aside with fresh install (this is my back system in case my drive fails
)
I am currently using a ST225 drive. However I have a spare ST251 which I was going to install as a second hard drive, so I could get more free space. You are correct, native Kaypro format is limited to 303 cylinders. TurboRom is a very nice upgrade to remove this restriction
Jay Sage released a bunch of stuff he did for TCJ. If the machine you have was not his, this may explain the content.
About a week ago I had my K10 connected to Schema's Telnet BBS. I think it would interesting to set up a CPM RBBS via telnet bbs, but I don't have high speed connection at home to do so
These are great machines to tinker with.
I have a spare ST412 set aside with fresh install (this is my back system in case my drive fails
)I am currently using a ST225 drive. However I have a spare ST251 which I was going to install as a second hard drive, so I could get more free space. You are correct, native Kaypro format is limited to 303 cylinders. TurboRom is a very nice upgrade to remove this restriction
Jay Sage released a bunch of stuff he did for TCJ. If the machine you have was not his, this may explain the content.
About a week ago I had my K10 connected to Schema's Telnet BBS. I think it would interesting to set up a CPM RBBS via telnet bbs, but I don't have high speed connection at home to do so
Mega-Cart: the ultimate cartridge for your Commodore Vic-20-
saundby
- Vic 20 Enthusiast
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:55 pm
- Website: http://saundby.com/
- Location: Gold Country, CA
I've verified that the 286 I've got was Jay Sage's development machine, and that the Kaypro 4 was Chuck Stafford's system. I don't know if anything on them is unique, or that I'm in a position to release anything that is (I'm planning on archiving but not releasing anything unless and until I can ask first.)
I got the ST-251 into the K10 and formatted (and partitioned into 6 pieces--drives A through F!), but haven't got a fully working OS on it yet. It sorta works under CPM2.2E and it sorta works under a copy of the K4's OS but not completely under either. So the plan is to get the system tracks off of an original K10 reload disk, use MAKTURBO to do the Turbo ROM updates, TURBOGEN a floppy with that, TURBOGEN the K10 hard disk with _that_ then use MOVTURBO to adjust. Whew!
Keep your fingers crossed.
Oh, I also noticed a couple of lines of wire-wrap wire leading up to the modem port connections on the K10 when I had it open today. It looks like someone might have done a 1200 baud modem mod on it...
One other question--does anyone know the key combo to call up Handyman? The K10 has a Handyman board in it, and while I remember what it does I don't remember how to invoke it.
-Mark G.
I got the ST-251 into the K10 and formatted (and partitioned into 6 pieces--drives A through F!), but haven't got a fully working OS on it yet. It sorta works under CPM2.2E and it sorta works under a copy of the K4's OS but not completely under either. So the plan is to get the system tracks off of an original K10 reload disk, use MAKTURBO to do the Turbo ROM updates, TURBOGEN a floppy with that, TURBOGEN the K10 hard disk with _that_ then use MOVTURBO to adjust. Whew!
Keep your fingers crossed.
Oh, I also noticed a couple of lines of wire-wrap wire leading up to the modem port connections on the K10 when I had it open today. It looks like someone might have done a 1200 baud modem mod on it...
One other question--does anyone know the key combo to call up Handyman? The K10 has a Handyman board in it, and while I remember what it does I don't remember how to invoke it.
-Mark G.
I dunno. However it may be a good question in comp.sys.cbmsaundby wrote: One other question--does anyone know the key combo to call up Handyman? The K10 has a Handyman board in it, and while I remember what it does I don't remember how to invoke it.
There has been a fair bit of K10 activity recently.
Mega-Cart: the ultimate cartridge for your Commodore Vic-20-
saundby
- Vic 20 Enthusiast
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- Location: Gold Country, CA
Great, I'll do that then. I'll have to go through Google, my ISP's news server has been totally hosed for about 4 years solid now. They let the disks fill up, and they apparently don't put them on a separate partition from the system itself. I've even offered to do some sysadmin work to clean it up, gratis, but you know how well such offers tend to be received.6502dude wrote:I dunno. However it may be a good question in comp.sys.cbmsaundby wrote: One other question--does anyone know the key combo to call up Handyman? The K10 has a Handyman board in it, and while I remember what it does I don't remember how to invoke it.
There has been a fair bit of K10 activity recently.
-
saundby
- Vic 20 Enthusiast
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:55 pm
- Website: http://saundby.com/
- Location: Gold Country, CA
You can run CP/M-86 on the 8088. There isn't as much software for it in general as there was for the 8080 versions of CP/M, though. It's very similar on both platforms. You can also run MyZ80 or any of a number of other emulators. The difference between the emulators is usually how well they handle the peripherals. I like the ones that translate directly to and from the FAT filesystem so that the files are really files, and that allow soft disk changes and allow you to set up directories as "users" (CP/M's version of directories.) MyZ80 runs under DOS, the more sophisticated ones run under Windows. I haven't looked for one for OS X yet, I've been too busy working on the real thing.vic user wrote:just have 2.2 on my apple, but i am hoping to trade away for a superbrain.
just love the look of that computer.
i picked up a book last night on assembly language programming for the 8088, and they mentioned cp/m as well, so i wouldn't mind trying to fire it up on my xt then.
chris
CP/M is a great assembly language development environment. And you can get CPM-86 and the Digital Research dev tools free for noncommercial use off the internet.
Also, if you get a V20 chip you can put it in in place of your 8088 and run the 8080 versions of CP/M. It's 8088 compatible and unlike the 8088 it emulates the 8080 as well. It's too bad the 8088 didn't have this feature, I think it would have made it a lot tougher for MS-DOS to displace CP/M since people would have moved to the new machine and brought their entire software library with them.
-Mark G.
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saundby
- Vic 20 Enthusiast
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- Location: Gold Country, CA
I just got another CP/M system windfall a couple of weeks ago. Between that and work, it's my excuse for why I haven't been around often lately.
The latest windfall:
2 Big Boards--Fully populated mainboards. 2.5MHz Z-80, 64K of RAM (in 4116's), 50-pin FDD connectors for single-density 8" drives, 2 serial one parallel, TTL CRT and ASCII keyboard connectors. I've also got one more daughterboard for the Dual Density FDC upgrade for these.
2 Big Board IIs--4MHz Z80, 64K RAM in 4164's , CRTC, SASI/SCSI interface, 34-pin and 50-pin FDD connectors, 2 serial, one parallel. One system with hard disk and dual half height 8"FDDs, just needs a CRT and an ASCII keyboard, the other one is a fully populated board. It looks like the first of these has a mod that allows it to work with both 8" and 5.25" disk drives.
2 Ampro Little Board/Plus boards, one with what appears to be a real time clock daughterboard. These have a 4MHz Z-80, 64K, 5.25 or 3.5 FDC , SCSI and 2 RS-232.
2 mystery system boards, one populated, one bare. Pretty much standard 64K Z-80 systems. Oddball power connector, not sure what they are yet.
Some embedded Z-80 boards, small run/prototypes.
Some interface daughterboards. Not sure what they are yet. Extra serial I/o on a 50 pin header, it looks like (they take a Z80 DART and piggyback into a Z80 CPU socket.
I also got some more software and docs for the Ampro and Ferguson boards. Among the Ampro s/w is source code!
I'm presently refurbishing a 25U (43.75") equipment rack. Until today I wasn't sure what I was going to mount up in it, but I think I'm going to go with one or both of the Ampro LB+ boards and a PC to act as a terminal and a media center.
The PC will have CD-R/W as well as floppies of every possible size and track pitch hooked up to it (from 8" to 3.5") and talk to the Ampros via four serial ports, one for each system's terminal, one for each system's general I/O. I'll probably run a BBS on it for file transfers between systems. I have a Compaticard IV that I'll be dropping in to talk to the 8" drives as well as any of the other drives that need that to talk to CP/M formats directly. It'll probably multi-boot into DR-DOS, Win98, and FreeBSD. I'll have to see if FreeBSD has any drivers for the Compaticard.
Each of the Ampros will get a hard disk (either a 40 or 80MB, depending on what comes out of some knackered Mac LC's I've got hanging around) as well as 5.25 and 3.5" floppy drives. The 5.25s will let me load data off standard disks directly into each system (most of my original CP/M program disks are for the Kaypro) and the 3.5's are what I'll probably use most for my own work and data transfer.
The hard disks on the Ampros will be a little bit of a project since the Ampro software is limited in the drives it supports, and all the drives I have of those types are already gainfully employed on other systems. Fortunately, having the source code and documentation for these systems makes it look like anything SCSI up to 88MB shouldn't be too difficult to add.
The equipment rack is almost ready. I should finish painting it this week (it was incredibly rusty, and needed a fair bit of TLC) then I can start mounting up the hardware (thus getting it out of a corner of the living room) and making new face panels. As things look now, I should have enough room in the rack so that I can put in a drawer for the Kaypro's keyboard. Then I can set the Kaypro on top of the rack, put its keyboard at a comfortable location, and tie it in to the PC/media center for data transfers when it's not being used elsewhere. At one point I was thinking of incorporating the Kaypro into the rack, but I don't want to give up having a more or less portable CP/M system. But I will want to be able to do backups and loads of data through the PC.
-Mark
The latest windfall:
2 Big Boards--Fully populated mainboards. 2.5MHz Z-80, 64K of RAM (in 4116's), 50-pin FDD connectors for single-density 8" drives, 2 serial one parallel, TTL CRT and ASCII keyboard connectors. I've also got one more daughterboard for the Dual Density FDC upgrade for these.
2 Big Board IIs--4MHz Z80, 64K RAM in 4164's , CRTC, SASI/SCSI interface, 34-pin and 50-pin FDD connectors, 2 serial, one parallel. One system with hard disk and dual half height 8"FDDs, just needs a CRT and an ASCII keyboard, the other one is a fully populated board. It looks like the first of these has a mod that allows it to work with both 8" and 5.25" disk drives.
2 Ampro Little Board/Plus boards, one with what appears to be a real time clock daughterboard. These have a 4MHz Z-80, 64K, 5.25 or 3.5 FDC , SCSI and 2 RS-232.
2 mystery system boards, one populated, one bare. Pretty much standard 64K Z-80 systems. Oddball power connector, not sure what they are yet.
Some embedded Z-80 boards, small run/prototypes.
Some interface daughterboards. Not sure what they are yet. Extra serial I/o on a 50 pin header, it looks like (they take a Z80 DART and piggyback into a Z80 CPU socket.
I also got some more software and docs for the Ampro and Ferguson boards. Among the Ampro s/w is source code!
I'm presently refurbishing a 25U (43.75") equipment rack. Until today I wasn't sure what I was going to mount up in it, but I think I'm going to go with one or both of the Ampro LB+ boards and a PC to act as a terminal and a media center.
The PC will have CD-R/W as well as floppies of every possible size and track pitch hooked up to it (from 8" to 3.5") and talk to the Ampros via four serial ports, one for each system's terminal, one for each system's general I/O. I'll probably run a BBS on it for file transfers between systems. I have a Compaticard IV that I'll be dropping in to talk to the 8" drives as well as any of the other drives that need that to talk to CP/M formats directly. It'll probably multi-boot into DR-DOS, Win98, and FreeBSD. I'll have to see if FreeBSD has any drivers for the Compaticard.
Each of the Ampros will get a hard disk (either a 40 or 80MB, depending on what comes out of some knackered Mac LC's I've got hanging around) as well as 5.25 and 3.5" floppy drives. The 5.25s will let me load data off standard disks directly into each system (most of my original CP/M program disks are for the Kaypro) and the 3.5's are what I'll probably use most for my own work and data transfer.
The hard disks on the Ampros will be a little bit of a project since the Ampro software is limited in the drives it supports, and all the drives I have of those types are already gainfully employed on other systems. Fortunately, having the source code and documentation for these systems makes it look like anything SCSI up to 88MB shouldn't be too difficult to add.
The equipment rack is almost ready. I should finish painting it this week (it was incredibly rusty, and needed a fair bit of TLC) then I can start mounting up the hardware (thus getting it out of a corner of the living room) and making new face panels. As things look now, I should have enough room in the rack so that I can put in a drawer for the Kaypro's keyboard. Then I can set the Kaypro on top of the rack, put its keyboard at a comfortable location, and tie it in to the PC/media center for data transfers when it's not being used elsewhere. At one point I was thinking of incorporating the Kaypro into the rack, but I don't want to give up having a more or less portable CP/M system. But I will want to be able to do backups and loads of data through the PC.
-Mark