VIDEO: TheVIC-20 vs Commodore VIC-20

[llopis]

I just released this video comparing TheVIC20 to an original VIC-20. I have to say I went into it without high hopes, but it slowly won me over. I was really impressed by the end.
Had the done a few things differently (namely, serial communication over USB) it would have been close to perfect.
Thanks to @Vic20-Ian for some tips.

[javierglez]

Noel comments in the video that Blitzkrieg feels like a BASIC program and it is indeed a BASIC program.
I think it is basically a copycat of Blitz although Minter is quoted as the author, maybe to increase sales.
I own an original tape. I may have uploaded a photo of it or the code some time ago. Anyway I'm attaching a zip with the 3 files and the code of the loader and the program. This is the version with the instructions translated in spanish by Indescomp.
It has 3 files, the first one (filename blitkrieg) just disables the RUNSTOP key and loads the graphics data (file CH1) and the BASIC code (file !).

Code: Select all

1 poke56,28:clr:printchr$(8)
5 poke788,194:rem"....................
10 printchr$(8):poke37150,2:rem"...................................
20 ifpeek(36869)=255then100
30 poke36879,110:print"... b l i t z k r i e g"
40 print". llamasoft - indescomp ]  jeff minter   1982."
50 poke36869,255:dn=peek(186):load"ch1",dn,1
100 print"..load"+chr$(34)+"!"+chr$(34)+","+str$(peek(186)):print"run":pri
nt"."
101 forx=631to639:pokex,13:nextx:poke198,9
110 new

Code: Select all

5 poke36879,8:print"..":poke36869,255
6 no=36877:s1=no-3:s2=no-2:s3=no-1:v=no+1
7 gosub8000
10 print".":gosub6000:print".":ba=7680:co=38400
20 p(1)=60:p(2)=61:p(3)=62:p=22:r=1
30 c(1)=59:c(2)=58:c(3)=63:sc=0
40 bo=46
60 xp(1)=40:xp(2)=41:xp(3)=42
100 zz=dd
105 forx=0to21:fory=0toint(rnd(1)*h)+zz:pokeba+22*21+x-y*22,c(r):pokeco+22
*21+x-y*22,r+3
110 next:t=43+int(rnd(1)*2):pokeco+22*21+x-y*22,r+3:pokeba+22*21+x-y*22,t
115 ift=44thenpokeco+22*21+x-y*22,1:pokeba+22*21+x-y*22,28:pokeba+22*20+x-
y*22,27
116 ift=44thenpokeco+22*20+x-y*22,9
120 r=int(rnd(1)*3)+1:next
130 forx=0to43:poke22*22+x+ba,230:poke22*22+x+co,7:next
140 pokeno,128:pokev,58
150 print"..score"sc".0 .high."hs".0"
200 pokep+ba,32:forx=1to3:pokep+co+x,5:pokep+ba+x,p(x):next
210 pk=peek(p+ba+4):ifpk=32then250
220 ifpk=230then3000
230 goto5000
250 ky=peek(197):ifky<>64andpb=0thengosub1000
260 ifpb<>0thengosub2000
270 fordl=1to((12-h)*2)*10:next:gosub9000
275 ifpb<>0thengosub2000
280 q=peek(no):pokeno,0:pokeno,q
300 p=p+1:goto200
1000 ifpeek(p+24+ba)=230thenreturn
1001 nt=200:pokes3,nt
1005 pb=p+22+2:pokepb+ba,bo:pokepb+co,1:ct=0:lim=int(rnd(1)*d2)+1:return
2000 pokepb+ba,32:pb=pb+22:zz=peek(pb+ba):ifzz=230thenpb=0:pokes3,0:goto70
00
2005 nt=nt-1:pokes3,nt
2010 pokepb+co,1:pokepb+ba,bo:ifzz<>32thenct=ct+1:sc=sc+h-7
2020 ifct>limthenrb=30+rnd(1)*2:pokepb+ba,rb:pokepb+co,peek(pb+22+co):pb=0
:pokes3,0:goto7000
2030 return
3000 print".......wave"h-7"over"
3005 pokeno,0:restore:pokev,63
3010 forz=1to21:readx,y:pokes3,x:fordl=1toy*400:next:pokes3,0:next:pokes3,
0:pokev,58
3016 pokev+1,8
3020 h=h+1:print".":p=22:goto100
5000 forx=15to0step-1:pokev,x:poke36865,38:fory=1to3:pokep+ba+y,xp(x/5):ne
xt:poke36865,37
5010 pokev,48:next:fory=1to3:pokep+ba+y,32:next:pokes3,0
5100 print".........g.a.m.e .o.v.e.r."
5105 pb=0
5110 pokev,15:fory=1to20:forx=140to127step-1:pokeno,x:pokev+1,(xand16)+8:n
ext:next
5115 pokev,48:pokeno,0
5130 print"..press .r. for rules or"
5135 ifsc>hsthenhs=sc
5136 pokev+1,8
5140 print"press .return. to play         again"
5142 gosub7000
5145 forx=1to20:geta$:next
5150 geta$:ifa$=""then5150
5160 ifa$="r"then5
5170 ifa$<>chr$(13)then5150
5180 goto10
6000 print".nivel - dificultad    (1-5):";:gosub6100:d2=6-dd
6020 print".seleccione nivel(1-5):";:t=dd:gosub6100:e=dd:dd=t:h=8+e:print"
.":return
6100 geta$:x=fre(0):ifval(a$)=0orval(a$)>5then6100
6120 print"."a$".":dd=val(a$)-1:return
7000 print"..score"sc".0 .high."hs".0":return
8000 print".. b l i t z k r i e g......................................"
8010 print".destruya la ciudad    desde su bombardero   pulsando .space,."

8020 print"para vencer y poder   aterrizar en la ciudadenigma!"
8030 print"nueva mision despues  de cada aterrizaje..";
8040 fordl=1to6000:next
8050 pokev,15:forx=128to255:pokeno,x:pokes2,255-x+128:pokev+1,(xand16)+40:
next
8060 pokev,48:pokeno,0:pokes2,0:pokev+1,8
8080 print".":return
9000 g=g+1:ifg>1then9100
9010 poke7384,240:poke7391,252:return
9100 g=0:poke7384,252:poke7391,240:return
10000 data207,3,207,1,209,1,209,2,207,1,209,1,207,1,201,1,195,1,191,4,215,
2,209,2,207,.3
10010 data195,.3,209,.3,201,.3,215,1,209,1,207,2,201,2,195,4

[MadCommodore]

I have used theC64 for about 18 months, and if you know my Youtube channel you know I used to play more Commodore games than anybody, about 500-1000 game videos a year. (channel is closing so this is not a plug for my channel!)

I would recommend theC64 fullsize for C64 users who want to write programs with the PETSCII symbols conveniently ONLY. It doesn't load anything that the SD2IEC also doesn't load, fails on many TAPs with zero indication of tape or disk activity, awkward to use for Joystick Port 1 games and the SID emulation is barely adequate and the joysticks are pathetic and disposable build quality. D

For playing VIC20 games there is only 1 joystick port to support but that is where the positives end. There is no way to see if tape game is still loading and TAPs that work on VICE fail on this thing, there are no tape controls for the emulator, you have to rename almost every file in the TOSEC because only unexpanded tape games need no renaming of files, cartridge games are awkward to use, the full screen height for games like Arcadia by Imagine needs to be set with more cryptic filename flags rather than simple menu options of VICE emulator. I spent 20 hours playing VIC20 games on this thing and my advice is NEVER EVER buy anything this company does.

The VIC20 also failed on about half the homebrew titles I tried. Either way, the joystick is horrendous so don't go playing Summer Games with it for gawdsake and there is no D9 to USB interface so it won't be fun on either system, character based low res screen VIC20 games are pretty intense to play. I did recapture my appreciation for the VIC20 in a big way, learned some neat things (30 column graphics!) but this was despite being forced to use theC64 fullsize to play the games on not because of it.

Get a real VIC20, a cheap CRT and an SD2IEC or TAPuino. Even though I only paid 110 quid for it I consider it nothing more than a novelty or specifically for people allergic to CRT screens.

[orion70]

Yeah
Your impressions fully confirm my doubts when this thing first came out, with all its "real retro players really should get one" hype.

Way better buying a real machine. Many present day VIC twenties come with hardware or cosmetic defects but hey, there's enough knowledge / spare hardware / modern replacements to revive them, and at the end of the day another friendly computer will be saved from oblivion. Not to mention how different is in terms of look and feel playing with a 40 yo breadbox.

[doug_in_nc]

I had considered getting one (or rather the original Commodore 64 version) when they first came out, and even put an order in for one, but the delays in releasing them on the US meant that I cancelled my order and got the real thing (C64 and VIC 20) instead, and definitely I have no regrets about doing so. To be honest, had I actually received a TheC64, my plan was to rip out the innards and put in a Raspberry Pi and run the BMC (Bare Metal Commodore) variant of VICE on it anyway which would have pushed the price beyond what it cost me to get a C64 and my first VIC 20 in close to 40 years. The only disadvantage I can see with going for real hardware is that I can't run PAL-only games as yet. I plan to build a Vicky 20 board with all new (except the VIC) components as a route to getting a "modern" PAL VIC at some time in the future though, and will probably do the same for a C64 once there are modern replacements for every custom chip (VIC-II isn't quite there, but will be soon by the look of it).

[javierglez]

The VIC20 also failed on about half the homebrew titles I tried.

Maybe it has to do with particular memory configuration or disk configuration or PAL/NTSC or file name issues. In theory it runs VICE and it should be OK in terms of compatibility.

[MadCommodore]

I remember all the flags were set correctly for Pulse and yet that thing refused to work....but Chuckie Egg, Manic Miner and Popeye worked fine but neither the TAPs or PRGs of Pulse worked but work fine on my usual install of VICE 2.4 for the VIC-20. Tried NTSC and PAL TAPs and PRGs and 8k and 16k. It's even worse situation on PLUS/4 VICE, the author of the CarTED racing game (sort of like an 8bit Lotus Challenge II on TED) said best to avoid VICE completely. There was also a couple of A000 cartridge ROMs that didn't work but worked OK on VICE 2.4 (as did all versions of Pulse and that isometric game a bit like Knightlore/Underworld which also wouldn't work). I even wrote some programs that would instantly let me boot to various configs on the VIC as I want to do some BASIC PETSCII type coding on it later.
Learnt a lot about theC64 by necessity

[javierglez]

It's possible, after all it's a different hardware than a PC, which I guess is the usual platform for VICE. Certainly I can't see what could prevent Pulse from starting, I've run it many times on my VIC from an SD2IEC.
I believe for Plus/4 people use the Yape emulator.
I like theVIC20 but as a collector I mainly buy old stuff, it's out of my focus.

[groepaz]

since the64 and thevic20 also use vice 2.4, the problem is probably in the configuration

[chysn]

Ironically, a real VIC-20 is way easier to get than a TheVIC-20, at least in the United States. I suppose that I have a lifetime supply of real VIC-20s at this point, but I'd opportunistically pick up a TheVIC-20 if it somehow becomes possible.

I have no actual evidence, but I imagine the preference is generational. For those of us who cut out teeth on VIC-20s, the hardware is important. Real cartridges, tape, user port devices, all contribute to the retro-computing experience.

But I can see some benefits to the new hardware. I'd be able to assure that my games work on it by generating, testing, and distributing files specifically for TheVIC-20.

[joshuadenmark]

There is only one Vic-20 for me, the original one from Commodore

[beamrider]

I bought one, but have to confess, it's only come out of the box once. I have a real Vic-20 permanently set up in a corner of my garage/workshop/mancave.

[prowlr]

@chysn

Same in Australia. They never officially (that I could find) offer it over here either. I have seen a few people offering them lately for ridiculous amounts, so much so that it is cheaper to buy a second hand Vic20 off EBay even with the inflated prices they often have.

I bought 'The C64' which has a Vic20 mode so I guess if I need the HDMI output, I can just drag that out.