What are the largest programs ever made for the Vic?

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Mike
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Post by Mike »

darkatx wrote:Would XPander 3 also be an option to get over the 32K hump?
You can combine a +3K RAM expansion and a +32K RAM expansion with a slot expander. Note though, that the external +3K expansion is blocked from BASIC use (RAM in BLK1 takes precedence) and will not show up as extra 'BYTES FREE', the BASIC start is still at $1201. The address range of $0400 to $0FFF is POKEable though, and ML programs can make use of it.

What you can't do is stick in two or more +32K expansions in the hope to 'add them up' somehow. They'd just map in the same BLK1..3 and BLK5, and you'd merely store the same information in several carts. You can only combine cartridges which happen to allocate different address ranges - for example, a +16K VIC-1111 (BLK1 and BLK2) and a +8K VIC-1110 with its jumpers set to BLK3 will provide +24K RAM.
RJBowman wrote:Many old BASIC games for the VIC were "double loaders"; the first program would do something like set of the game graphics in memory and display instructions on the screen, then it would load another program which would actually play a game. In total, it wasn't really a huge program because ithe double loading was a way of getting around the 3.5k limitation, but it goes to show you that swapping code from storage on the VIC was common practice in the day.
There are also "triple loaders", which show (just) a title screen and instructions in part 1, prepare ML and/or UDGs in part 2, and the game main program is in part 3. MAD RUSH consists of six(!) parts: the first 5 parts are DATA loaders.

On the C16, I had Winter Olympiade by Udo Gertz/Kingsoft. ;)
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darkatx
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Post by darkatx »

Mike wrote:
darkatx wrote:Would XPander 3 also be an option to get over the 32K hump?
You can combine a +3K RAM expansion and a +32K RAM expansion with a slot expander...
Exactly, what I had in mind...thanks! :D
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orion70
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Post by orion70 »

Infocom adventures use the full RAM including BLK0 and BLK5 (see HERE). Speaking of which: I tried them with the Final Expansion 3 in full RAM + DOS Wedge configuration, but loading stops with a "not enough memory" error. Then it resets without the wedge, and in this config it loads perfectly. Shouldn't the DOS Wedge be "invisible" in RAM? One more question: trying to turn the DOS wedge OFF freezes the VIC, but only with full RAM configuration. Anyone can help with these issues?
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Mike
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Post by Mike »

orion70 wrote:Shouldn't the DOS Wedge be "invisible" in RAM?
The FE3 DOS Wedge is copied from the firmware ROM to the address range $0400 .. $0FFF, which is then write protected by FE3, and thus not available for other programs.
trying to turn the DOS wedge OFF freezes the VIC, but only with full RAM configuration.
You should be able to turn off the Wedge in the Memory manager (F1) in the first place. If you mean that FE3 can't handle the OFF command from the READY prompt with full RAM config, that's a bug.
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eslapion
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Post by eslapion »

orion70 wrote:Infocom adventures use the full RAM including BLK0 and BLK5 (see HERE).
Do I understand correctly that originally, the Z-code interpreter required 35k of RAM expansion (3k RAM expansion + 32k RAM in BLK 1,2,3,5) but now will work correctly with on a standard 32k RAM expansion?
Mike wrote:You can combine a +3K RAM expansion and a +32K RAM expansion with a slot expander.
I can "boost" the Ultimate Expander (selling for 25$) to 35k RAM (+3K RAM expansion and a +32K RAM expansion) by piggybacking another SRAM chip on top of the 32k SRAM chip.

See:
http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bul ... 6&start=24
Be normal.
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Mike
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Post by Mike »

eslapion wrote:Do I understand correctly that originally, the Z-code interpreter required 35k of RAM expansion (3k RAM expansion + 32k RAM in BLK 1,2,3,5) but now will work correctly with on a standard 32k RAM expansion?
There are actually two different Z-code interpreters being talked about: TNT's implementation, which still requires +35K RAM, and BlackSmurf's implementation, which works with +32K RAM.
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orion70
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Post by orion70 »

Mike wrote:
orion70 wrote:Shouldn't the DOS Wedge be "invisible" in RAM?
The FE3 DOS Wedge is copied from the firmware ROM to the address range $0400 .. $0FFF, which is then write protected by FE3, and thus not available for other programs.
trying to turn the DOS wedge OFF freezes the VIC, but only with full RAM configuration.
You should be able to turn off the Wedge in the Memory manager (F1) in the first place. If you mean that FE3 can't handle the OFF command from the READY prompt with full RAM config, that's a bug.
Thanks Mike. It's exactly what I mean :) . Anyway, I'll try with F1.
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