PAL vs NTSC systems

SparkyNZ · Post by **SparkyNZ** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:57 pm

Hi Everyone. I've just bought an NTSC Vic20 from the US.. but we have PAL here in New Zealand (doh, I forgot about that).

Where is the difference in the Vic for the 2 systems? Does the VIC chip actually come in a PAL and NTSC version or is there a simple means of converting the VIC from one system to the other?

My TV may even support NTSC to be honest.. but I have yet to jig up a power supply since we run 240VAC not 117VAC..

Thanks
Sparky

TLovskog · Post by **TLovskog** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:33 am

It is two different chips. 6560 is the NTSC version called, and 6561 the PAL version.

I reasonable modern TV should be able to accept both standards. Although I have had problems with really modern flat screen TVs to happily accept these "old" video signals. I haven't dug into the reasons for that though.

The screen has different positions on PAL/NTSC so games for one system might have a "misplaced" screen on another system VIC-20.

Boray · Post by **Boray** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:16 am

The PAL machine is a little bit faster. The NTSC machine makes better use of the screen.

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:05 am

All Commodore monitors (and most TV sets, as said before) support both formats. As for the power supply, it's not a problem when you use a 240V one - I have an American NTSC VIC and it works flawlessly with the European PS.

SparkyNZ · Post by **SparkyNZ** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:08 pm

orion70 wrote:All Commodore monitors (and most TV sets, as said before) support both formats. As for the power supply, it's not a problem when you use a 240V one - I have an American NTSC VIC and it works flawlessly with the European PS.

Thanks for the info, guys.

Orion, the Vic I bought appears to be an older one with two bigs pins on the side. I've done some reading on here and it seems as though mine takes an unregulated 9V AC supply. I thought I'd be able to knock something up to let me use my C64 supply but I can't as half of the transformer is actually inside the Vic itself on this model. Still.. I have the original US transformer so I'll just buy a 240-120 stepdown transformer.. once I find one cheap enough that can deliver enough juice.

I can't wait to get this working. I haven't used a real Vic for over 20 years.. Its just like meeting an old friend again!

RobertBe · Post by **RobertBe** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:36 pm

orion70 wrote:...and most TV sets, as said before) support both formats.

Not most TV sets here in North America.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

Leeeeee · Post by **Leeeeee** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:00 pm

the Vic I bought appears to be an older one with two bigs pins on the side. I've done some reading on here and it seems as though mine takes an unregulated 9V AC supply.

A 12V DC supply, connected either way round, will work just as well. You can even use the 12V from a PC power supply.
Lee.

SparkyNZ · Post by **SparkyNZ** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:55 pm

Leeeeee wrote:
the Vic I bought appears to be an older one with two bigs pins on the side. I've done some reading on here and it seems as though mine takes an unregulated 9V AC supply.
A 12V DC supply, connected either way round, will work just as well. You can even use the 12V from a PC power supply.
Lee.

Are you kidding? That seems just too easy.. I would love to try it out but need more convincing. I paid a load of cash to get this Vic sent over here so you can understand why I'm so hesitant.

SparkyNZ · Post by **SparkyNZ** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:17 pm

Leeeeee wrote:
the Vic I bought appears to be an older one with two bigs pins on the side. I've done some reading on here and it seems as though mine takes an unregulated 9V AC supply.
A 12V DC supply, connected either way round, will work just as well. You can even use the 12V from a PC power supply.
Lee.

Wow!! Wow! Wow!! Thanks Lee!! You're a genius, man! I have a working Vic20 on my TV!

The only strange thing is that the on/off switch doesn't seem to work. I don't know if its just broken or if its a 'feature' of the 12VDC supply. I'm going to get that checked out now though before I somehow fry my precious 3.5k beast!

Update: The switch was fine. It may well be that it only works when the polarity is one way around? I've marked my cable and the on/off switch is working fine now.

I don't know which was more fun - amusing my kids with a BASIC siren or playing Omega Race for the first time ever!

Leeeeee · Post by **Leeeeee** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:02 pm

The only strange thing is that the on/off switch doesn't seem to work.

You seem to have another path to ground via your TV. Swapping the power pins over should get the switch working again.

Lee.

amramsey · Post by **amramsey** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:36 am

Boray wrote:The PAL machine is a little bit faster. The NTSC machine makes better use of the screen.

Actually, its the opposite of that.

a4000bear · Post by **a4000bear** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:35 am

Strange coincidence - I'm from Australia and have also just received an NTSC VIC today to play with. I already have four PAL VICs.

In response to the OP, These are the differences between PAL & NTSC VICs:

Different VIC chip. PAL has 6561 and NTSC has 6560.
Different Kernel ROM. PAL has 901486-07, NTSC has -06 version. (the differences are mainly in default screen positions and some timing changes to make the serial port compatible with 50Hz or 60Hz timing)
Different crystal. PAL has 8.867 MHz, NTSC has 14.3 MHz.

The NTSC VIC chip supports interlaced video, the PAL one does not.

Boray · Post by **Boray** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:45 am

amramsey wrote:
Boray wrote:The PAL machine is a little bit faster. The NTSC machine makes better use of the screen.
Actually, its the opposite of that.

What do you mean by that? Of course it's possible to have higher resolution on a PAL screen, but with the default screen size, much of the TV screen is just wasted borders.

amramsey · Post by **amramsey** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:20 pm

Boray wrote:
amramsey wrote:
Boray wrote:The PAL machine is a little bit faster. The NTSC machine makes better use of the screen.
Actually, its the opposite of that.
What do you mean by that? Of course it's possible to have higher resolution on a PAL screen, but with the default screen size, much of the TV screen is just wasted borders.

I thought the 50Hz update rate of the PAL machine versus 60Hz meant that the gameplay was generally a little slower on the PAL side?

The idea that the NTSC makes better use of the actually TV screen hadn't occurred to me. That's a good point. I was just thinking that the PAL screen had the capability to go higher res.

A fact that I used to make use of with my Amiga... I ran it with PAL screen modes to give me 70 odd extra pixels. Nevermind the headaches all that flickering caused.

16KVIC20 · Post by **16KVIC20** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:31 pm

Does the VIC display not have borders in NTSC land then?