Video Game Schools

Discuss anything related to the VIC
rhurst
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Post by rhurst »

This is a great thread... a lot of differing perspectives and opinions.

I graduated from one of "those" technical colleges in 1984, obtaining an Associate Science degree in Computer Programming. BTW, I completed the academic and technical requirements in only a 14-month calendar span, meeting my objectives to get a REAL job fast. I went on to have a successful and rewarding career, starting at the age of 19 that began with application programming -- exactly what I was educated for (not trained). The "training" came from on-the-job experience -- and I was 1 of 2 students (from a class of 16 then) that got that first lucky break into computer programming. I base my personal success on what was plainly stated before:
programming is a discipline that requires a strong grasp of mathematics, logic, and patience. Not to mention time management skills ... It also takes foresight and determination. Unlike other disciplines, programming skills can take years to develop to maturity.
No one with any success in computer programming can disagree with those required attributes. We have former musicians and telemarketers writing critical applications to do clinical work. I also work with practicing MDs that can write computer applications -- and they are NOT the best coders because they graduated Harvard and the like, but they have the advantage of having what it takes to produce software coupled with the specialized knowledge of their clinical discipline.

I went back to that same technical college to complete my Bachelor Science degree in Computer Information Systems in 2001. I completed its academic and technical requirements in a 12-month calendar span. I was offered an adjunct instructor position the very next week, and enjoyed 3-years of part-time teaching in C, VB .Net, and Linux systems administration.

So, I was educated in application programming in 1983/1984 and again in 2001/2002. Over the years in between, I learned and was promoted for systems administration responsibilities for RSTS/E, VMS, Tru64 UNIX, Windows NT/2000 Server, and Red Hat/SuSE Linux. I learned networking administration, including LAT, Novell, and TCP/IP, including all the hardware responsibilities in ethernet cabling including the variety of thin and thick coax wiring, termination. I became an IT director for a hospital and promoted to a corporate IT director a few years later -- still with that same Associates degree, but was "forced" to get my Bachelor's to meet human resources requirements for that high level position. At one-time my supervisor, a CFO, would persistently urge me to go back to a "real" college to obtain a "real" degree -- the wonders it would do for my career. HA!!

All of that did not happen to me by accident with an ivy-league college career or some privileged background -- I flipped Whoppers and chased down rogue bowling pins starting the week I turned 16. So, it is possible, even if it is not probable -- whether that is influenced by public perception or those "snobby experts" -- to be successful in IT without the fancy education. BTW, I can come off being a snob too despite my humble beginnings, again, perception is one's reality.

All that said, it is in my experience, both as a student of the 1980s and 2000s and as a technical college instructor, that only 1 or 2 from any given class goes on to work a career in the programming track of their technical degrees. A higher ratio occurs in the networking track, but sadly, I am a bit of a bigot there because of my success in network architect designs and implementations for several networks, large and small, over a span of decades -- while I jest that ANYONE can be a network engineer, given the opportunity, I would despise working as one full-time. It, too, takes a certain kind of discipline.

I believe the low ratio of computer programmers graduating from a technical college is influenced some by public opinion, no doubt. "Be a New England Tech grad, or compete with one!" Heh-heh, very comical even though I am alumni. The prospecting through viable candidates is much finer than it has been from the last decade -- and it has to be. IT is more tightly integrated with most company's successes or failures.

And there must be a love or deep passion to drive a successful person to work IT. Those crazy times in the 1990s ARE gone, yes, and as a former manager, I had to hire some from that "class" -- and guess what they are doing today? :wink: I do see an improved application process to enter technical colleges, as well as I see an increase in drop-outs -- which I believe is appropriate -- regardless that the college is "suffering" financially from loss in student retention. Ironically, as I left in 2005, Video Game Development was being tossed around as a way to lure new students and possibly retain them for their 2 and 4-year programs.

So this is nothing new in that business, each with their own set of objectives, colleges and students alike. What you do with it matters.
dragos
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Post by dragos »

First, if it sounded like i think you need college at all to succeed, I do not.

I went one semester, hated it, instructors were boobs and taught 10 yr old bullshit...

What I am saying is, The AVERAGE person will never make an even GOOD IT person.... ever....
MacbthPSW
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Post by MacbthPSW »

This thread has been a really enjoyable read, but I can't help but pick up on this one...
carlsson wrote:Anyway, does this have anything to do with the VIC-20? I doubt anyone of us will get an occupation at a modern video game developer based on our homebrewn VIC software. :lol:
Well... it WAS my homebrewn C64 software that got me into the modern video game business, one step at a time :)

C64DTV->Hummer->Game Boy Advance->Nintendo DS

I'm now working on my 3rd commercial Nintendo DS game, and my way in was through my 8-bit Commodore obsession.

Mind you, when the DTV / Hummer gigs ran their course, I had to ask "How about I work on Game Boy?" and the response was "How is your C++?" My university experience in Computer Science was then an asset.
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Jeff-20
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Post by Jeff-20 »

What's "Hummer"?

I keep Robin close because he's my "IN" to the Game Industry. Someday, I'll work my way up from BASIC programs on the VIC. Or maybe the VIC 20 will make a shocking comeback and public opinion will shift away from fast-paced well coded games to charmingly slow BASIC.

Seriously, game design would be a dream for me, but I think it may only be a life-long hobby. I don't have time to learn higher levels of programming. It's all about creativity to me, and programming is my only limitation. Maybe I'd be a good designer. I can think of all sorts of wonderful ideas for the Wii and DS, but without programming skills, no one will ever know. Maybe a billion people feel the same way and academia is exploiting it.
Last edited by Jeff-20 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gklinger
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Post by gklinger »

Jeff-20 wrote:What's "Hummer"?
Image

Basically it's a game where you race a Hummer (those crazy huge SUV things) and it's based on the C64DTV hardware. You can learn more from the Hummer DTV FAQ and the Hummer DTV Hacking Pages.
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carlsson
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Post by carlsson »

Just because you design games would not require you to implement them. At least not in a big company.

Robin, if your publisher had not been into GBA and let you do a soft transition, would you ever had brought your DTV and Hummer work to a different software house as your main merits to apply for a job in video game programming? Technically speaking it probably is more meriting than a fresh CS degree with no or little practical experience, if only the employer can have faith in you understanding the tools and programming principles used in modern day game programming.
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6502dude
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Post by 6502dude »

gklinger wrote:Basically it's a game where you race....
I thought a "hummer" was something entirely different. :wink:
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MacbthPSW
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Post by MacbthPSW »

gklinger wrote:
Jeff-20 wrote:What's "Hummer"?
Basically it's a game where you race a Hummer (those crazy huge SUV things) and it's based on the C64DTV hardware.
I should add that it's a pretty bad game, but the design and hardware (particularly, the steering wheel) were outside out control, so we can only take a small part of the blame :)

I'm still glad it exists because it was 1) a very good learning experience in many ways and 2) it got some fun, hackable hardware out to those who like that sort of thing, and some pretty cool projects resulted.
MacbthPSW
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Post by MacbthPSW »

carlsson wrote:Just because you design games would not require you to implement them. At least not in a big company.
Yes, I think Jeff could be an excellent designer in a company. All but the tiniest companies have designers as separate positions from the programmers. A typical designer has to do a lot of grunt work though... making long Game Design Documents, laying out levels in an editor of some sort, editing and formatting dialogue, etc. I'm glad I don't have to do that stuff, though I suppose they're glad they don't have to code the thing!
Robin, if your publisher had not been into GBA and let you do a soft transition, would you ever had brought your DTV and Hummer work to a different software house as your main merits to apply for a job in video game programming?
I'm not sure I would have gotten into the more mainstream Nintendo work I'm doing now based on that experience, but maybe I could have got into more embedded work, like electronic games, or other plug & play joysticks? Though I'm not sure how much of that sort of thing is done in North America, perhaps it's all done by low-paid people in other countries?
Technically speaking it probably is more meriting than a fresh CS degree with no or little practical experience, if only the employer can have faith in you understanding the tools and programming principles used in modern day game programming.
Yes, and finding that faith in the employer is the real challenge. That's why it was very fortunate I was able to jump platforms within the same company. Now I have enough experience that I'm confident I could be hired elsewhere with relatively little difficulty.
carlsson
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Post by carlsson »

So when will Nintendo license Splatform DS? 8)
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Jeff-20
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Post by Jeff-20 »

carlsson wrote:So when will Nintendo license Splatform DS? 8)
When they can attach it to Kirby or Yoshi. "Kirby's Splatform"
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