Significance of Brown VIC-20 Cases, with Eprom Boards?

commodorevic20.com · Post by **commodorevic20.com** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:12 am

Hi everyone! Does anyone know the significance of these brown VIC-20 cases (vs regular beige cases)? The boards inside have an eprom on them as well, which seemed unusual. I was thinking perhaps they were early releases? Anyone know?

orion70 · Post by **orion70** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:35 am

I once saved this file "VIC-20 technical information by Ward Shrake", can't remember where I found it. I looked for it upon your question and I found this:

However, a rare few Commodore-made carts came wired from the factory to use standard 2764 EPROM chips ... if you can find one, it would be easier to experiment with. (And I do mean rare; I have only seen two, myself!).
These special carts are in brown plastic cases, with metal labels that have no name printed on them. Instead, there is a metallic sticker stuck on it, with the name of the cartridge. Apparently, limited edition carts.
Also, a few later HES carts I've seen also came with EPROMs and sockets. But be careful, as various early carts sometimes used 2 banks of 4k each!

Don't know if it's useful. Few examples of other blank carts with a label sticked on them are here and here (this is from Jogi's collection).

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:03 am

As for the board inside, it could be a 3rd party board designed to fit into a standard shell. Perhaps it is really unusual if it is a genuine Commodore product, but EPROM based boards from other (later) manufacturers aren't that uncommon. Most though seem to take one or two 2532/2732 chips, not so commonly 2764 as far as I've observed.

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:43 am

Those are indeed scarce, but not as ultra rare as they seemed to Ward Shrake at the time.

It *seems* (just a theory) that either early on in the VIC-20's lifetime, or near the very end, when demand for cartridges was low or down. It wasn't worth it for Commodore to create large batches of real ROMs for the games, nor was it worth it to re-print large batches of custom metal or plastic labels. It seems they were instead making small batches of cartridges by just burning EPROMs and using off-the-warehouse-shelf brown utility cartridge cases.

In the case of Commodore Artist, I think MOST of those cartridges were made this way. I don't think I've seen a "white" Commodore Artist. I guess it was either a really late title, or an unpopular title.

I've seen (and have) cartridges of the type in your photo above, and also similar brown cartridges but with paper labels printed with what looks ike an MPS-801 quality printer. I guess this was at the very end of the VIC-20's lifetime when it wasn't even worth it for Commodore to get the clear labels printed.

commodorevic20.com · Post by **commodorevic20.com** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:14 am

Good Morning!

Thanks for the replies, Interesting!

I've opened the carts again to have a second look. Each has "COPYRIGHT 1982" & "REV A" printed on the PCB. They PCBs have been made to fit two chips, but only one socket is installed - with one eprom "MBM2764-30" with "8309" (which I think is the date code).

Ral-Cal, here's an image of a regular production "Commodore Artist" from my collection (BTW, Anyone here is welcome to archive/repost any of these images if you like).

Best Regards,
Paul

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:16 am

Thanks, I will definitely use that article in the Denial WIKI entry for Commodore Artist.

I think that I've collected about a dozen or more images of those clear label, brown cartridges over the years - all different games - so it seems Commodore was doing this to all of their titles at one time or another.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:18 am

My Commodore Artist is also a proper white case version. My Personal Finance though I believe is this stickered entity.

channelmaniac · Post by **channelmaniac** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:21 am

orion70 wrote:I once saved this file "VIC-20 technical information by Ward Shrake", can't remember where I found it. I looked for it upon your question and I found this:

However, a rare few Commodore-made carts came wired from the factory to use standard 2764 EPROM chips ... if you can find one, it would be easier to experiment with. (And I do mean rare; I have only seen two, myself!).
These special carts are in brown plastic cases, with metal labels that have no name printed on them. Instead, there is a metallic sticker stuck on it, with the name of the cartridge. Apparently, limited edition carts.
Also, a few later HES carts I've seen also came with EPROMs and sockets. But be careful, as various early carts sometimes used 2 banks of 4k each!
Don't know if it's useful. Few examples of other blank carts with a label sticked on them are here and here (this is from Jogi's collection).

Cool!

I have Gorf cartridge that I was wondering about. I had it listed on CTCW bu got no bids... It's brown with a blank metal cover and a metallic sticker. It has a 2764 chip in it.

RJ

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:46 pm

DELETED

ral-clan · Post by **ral-clan** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:49 pm

MRaider wrote:My Commodore 8K Expansion RAM cart (bought alongside the VIC in late '82) was just like that - brown, with a metalised label. I had a few other carts in the months and years that followed, but none were the same as the 8K cart.

All the RAM carts by Commodore were brown with metal label....did you mean yours had a blank label and sticker overtop?

drvanthorp · Post by **drvanthorp** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:16 pm

Is it possible that Commodore had intended at one point to actually sell an EPROM burner with blank brown cartridges, then sold them burned and labeled when the burner was cancelled?

carlsson · Post by **carlsson** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:01 pm

In that case, I find it more likely that Commodore would "license" smaller software houses to make and sell their own cartridges under the C= flag, using genuine cases and ready-made EPROM boards. Like VIC-3XXX, VIC-4XXX, VIC-5XXX, VIC-6XXX series.

We already have proof of the VIC-73XX series (Handic: A World at War, Bridge, Space Snake) and it should exist a VIC-7101 (Turtle Bridge by unknown developer) out there. If every smaller software house got a series of 100 cartridge numbers allocated to themselves, it would give room for at least 40-50 such developers, in theory increasing the VIC-20 cartridge catalogue with another couple of thousand cartridges.

eslapion · Post by **eslapion** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:07 am

For reasons I can only try to guess, most Atarisoft carts had real 2364 ROMs in them except for one. Robotron 2084 contained a board with two 2764 EPROM chips.

PaulQ · Post by **PaulQ** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:28 am

drvanthorp wrote:Is it possible that Commodore had intended at one point to actually sell an EPROM burner with blank brown cartridges, then sold them burned and labeled when the burner was cancelled?

I would suspect that Commodore simply burned the EPROMs right inside the carts. That way, they could do up a batch of blank "Carts," then burn and label them as needed to meet market demand.

Leeeeee · Post by **Leeeeee** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:20 am

I would suspect that Commodore simply burned the EPROMs right inside the carts.

You can't do it. The program pin is tied to Vcc once inside a cart.

Lee.