Hi,
i found a lot about the Z80 IDE-Contoller (see http://www.gaby.de/gide/GIDE.txt) and i read about this controller in CPC and in the KC/85 Z80 Computers.
It is an controller for the Z80 socket.
My question is, it is possible to do this for 6502 CPU's and for th VIC-20.
Cheers
Mike
IDE Controller for the VIC-20
Moderator: Moderators
There is a cartridge solution for the C64:IDE64.
I think Ruud (on this forum) has done something similar, maybe most interesting would be the 1541IDE solution, which would replace a disk drive with an IDE interface:
http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/1541ide.htm
http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/ide.htm
I don't know if Ruud's projects are ready to build/ship, or just half finished concepts, but I would think this is the direction you're expecting?
I think Ruud (on this forum) has done something similar, maybe most interesting would be the 1541IDE solution, which would replace a disk drive with an IDE interface:
http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/1541ide.htm
http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/ide.htm
I don't know if Ruud's projects are ready to build/ship, or just half finished concepts, but I would think this is the direction you're expecting?
Anders Carlsson
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I should have my IDE64 in a few hours! It's finally here in Canada, being shipped to my house today.Mikam73 wrote:CMD HD should work with Vic20 too..
Ide64 rulezz..I have one on SX64 with 256MB CF memorycard.
I plan on using it along with my VIC20, kind of. My C64 is right next to my VIC20, so the idea is to keep lots of VIC20 files on the hard drive, both as D64 and PRG files.
Then when I want to use a program on the VIC20, I can copy the file onto a floppy and move it to the VIC20. As long as I don't save anything (not really needed with games), I can use the same floppy disk over and over again.
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Oh yeah, 64HDD also has a VIC20 mode.
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Nope. It's intended for the C64 only, it doesn't even work on a 128 in 128 mode. The built-in IDEDOS, BASIC wedge, and file manager are very 64-specific.vic user wrote:but the IDE64 is fully compatible with the vic 20 correct?
Besides, it plugs into the cartridge port on the C64, and the VIC20's cartridge port is too different physically, even if the code were compatible.
From what I understand, the 1541IDE project would be something of a poor man's CMD HD?Hallo Anders,
> I'm still waiting for Ruud to log in and say something about his
> projects. :) From what I understand, the 1541IDE project would
> be something of a poor man's CMD HD?
Yes and no.
The original idea was to use the ports of the 6522's to generate the signals for the drive. But I was persuaded to design a real interface. And I must admit I'm not happy with that. The performance will be much much better then with the I/O interface but it also means that the average person isn't able to build it by himself.
The original idea has some flaws as well: although no extra parts [*] are needed, a lot of cutting and/or de-soldering has to be done. OK, easier/simpler then soldering a complete circuit but still....
Another idea is IMHO simpler but requires some extra parts:
Add an extra 74LS138 and two 6522's. The use of the 6522's is clear: they provide the I/O. In this case only a minimum amount of cutting has to be done: the CS line of the original 6522 has to be cut and that's that. The 138 has to be piggybacked on another IC, the 6522's on the original one(s).
[*] Extra RAM is needed anyway; piggyback a 6116 on top of the original RAM. 2 KB is enough IMHO.
Then there is one more thing left to do: the software...... That is something that needs time, very much time and additional hardware; a EPROMemulator is a MUST in this case. (I've built one in the mean time)
I also have other projects going, one of them is CBM-HD, an IEEE-drive emulator for the PET/CBM series. One could say the IEEE equivalent of 64HDD. And 64HDD is one of the reasons I decided to spend all of my time on CBM-HD. The most important reason: I have have way to many unfinished projects and I now want to finish them one by one.
The next one I want to finish is SCC4IEEE, Star Commander Clone for IEEE. SCC needs the same hardware as CBM-HD and therefore the logical next project to finish.
> I'm still waiting for Ruud to log in and say something about his
> projects. :) From what I understand, the 1541IDE project would
> be something of a poor man's CMD HD?
Yes and no.
The original idea was to use the ports of the 6522's to generate the signals for the drive. But I was persuaded to design a real interface. And I must admit I'm not happy with that. The performance will be much much better then with the I/O interface but it also means that the average person isn't able to build it by himself.
The original idea has some flaws as well: although no extra parts [*] are needed, a lot of cutting and/or de-soldering has to be done. OK, easier/simpler then soldering a complete circuit but still....
Another idea is IMHO simpler but requires some extra parts:
Add an extra 74LS138 and two 6522's. The use of the 6522's is clear: they provide the I/O. In this case only a minimum amount of cutting has to be done: the CS line of the original 6522 has to be cut and that's that. The 138 has to be piggybacked on another IC, the 6522's on the original one(s).
[*] Extra RAM is needed anyway; piggyback a 6116 on top of the original RAM. 2 KB is enough IMHO.
Then there is one more thing left to do: the software...... That is something that needs time, very much time and additional hardware; a EPROMemulator is a MUST in this case. (I've built one in the mean time)
I also have other projects going, one of them is CBM-HD, an IEEE-drive emulator for the PET/CBM series. One could say the IEEE equivalent of 64HDD. And 64HDD is one of the reasons I decided to spend all of my time on CBM-HD. The most important reason: I have have way to many unfinished projects and I now want to finish them one by one.
The next one I want to finish is SCC4IEEE, Star Commander Clone for IEEE. SCC needs the same hardware as CBM-HD and therefore the logical next project to finish.
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/ / |_/ Met vriendelijke groet, Ruud Baltissen
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Hallo allemaal,
> Another idea is IMHO simpler but requires some extra parts:
> Add an extra 74LS138 and two 6522's.
Yet another idea and I really would like an opinion about it.
I have a project, PC-Flop, where a PC emulates the custom IC connected to the first 6522 using the LPT-port. But it never worked because the LPT port is to slow.
The new idea is a mix of PC-Flop and the 6522-IDE combination:
- the 1541 is connected to the PC through the LPT port
- the ROM is altered so a less time critical transfer protocol can be used
The advantage is we also can imlement routines to handle other drives then the 1541. Using the original Track/Sector coding we can handle an imiganering 16 MB drive. If the program doesn't use commands like B-W, B-R and other BLOCK commands, the sky is the limit.
I already mentioned CBM-HD. Consider this as the same but with a real 1541-PCB as interface.
Any comment is welcome!
> Another idea is IMHO simpler but requires some extra parts:
> Add an extra 74LS138 and two 6522's.
Yet another idea and I really would like an opinion about it.
I have a project, PC-Flop, where a PC emulates the custom IC connected to the first 6522 using the LPT-port. But it never worked because the LPT port is to slow.
The new idea is a mix of PC-Flop and the 6522-IDE combination:
- the 1541 is connected to the PC through the LPT port
- the ROM is altered so a less time critical transfer protocol can be used
The advantage is we also can imlement routines to handle other drives then the 1541. Using the original Track/Sector coding we can handle an imiganering 16 MB drive. If the program doesn't use commands like B-W, B-R and other BLOCK commands, the sky is the limit.
I already mentioned CBM-HD. Consider this as the same but with a real 1541-PCB as interface.
Any comment is welcome!
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Hm, I'm rather crap on these things, but how do you mean?
* VIC -> modified 1541, interfacing -> PC w/IDE HD
* VIC -> modified 1541 w/IDE HD
* Only modified 1541, interfacing -> PC w/IDE HD
If the first choice, what is the gain over making a direct VIC -> PC connection similar to the various existing projects? Buffering aspects? If the third choice, is the point to duplicate 5.25" disks? Maybe I'm too thick to understand how you're thinking.
* VIC -> modified 1541, interfacing -> PC w/IDE HD
* VIC -> modified 1541 w/IDE HD
* Only modified 1541, interfacing -> PC w/IDE HD
If the first choice, what is the gain over making a direct VIC -> PC connection similar to the various existing projects? Buffering aspects? If the third choice, is the point to duplicate 5.25" disks? Maybe I'm too thick to understand how you're thinking.
Anders Carlsson
Hallo Anders,
>Hm, I'm rather crap on these things, but how do you mean?
No problem trying to explain it again.
First forget the VIC. Whatever idea I'll work out on the hand, all IEC computers will benefit from it.
In the past I had two ideas to improve the 1541:
1- add an harddisk
2- replace the floppydrive and custom IC with a PC
The advantages of using a harddisk should clear. And I came with three ideas how to do it
- the not so quick and very dirty method: no extra IC's needed, only cables
- (two) extra 6522 plus 74xx138
- real IDE interface
But all three methods needed another ROM in the first place. I also realised that extra RAM was needed. This and the altered hardware meant less compatibility.
So I came with the idea to replace the mechanical drive and a part of the circuit with a PC and in such a way no extra IC's were needed.:
http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/pcflop.htm
Advantages:
- extra resources like CD-ROM, LPT, RS232 etc.
- no flopies needed anymore
- no change of ROM needed
- no extra RAM needed
- seen from the point of view of the software: still the same hardware
The last two points mean 100% compatibility.
The problems I ran into was:
- LPT port was to slow
- the combination of INT and DRAM refresh of the PC messed things up.
The third idea was to combine one part of the IDE-idea, adding an extra 6522, with a part of PC-FLOP, using a PC. A disadvantage of the IDE project is the amount of work that has to be done to write a new ROM. And I have the impression that it should be possible to provide the 1541 with a ROM that only contains the basic instructions for the PC and that the PC should do the actual heavy work.
Advantage:
- no extra RAM needed
- more flexible then the above two ideas IMHO
- the onboard 6522 will do
>Hm, I'm rather crap on these things, but how do you mean?
No problem trying to explain it again.
First forget the VIC. Whatever idea I'll work out on the hand, all IEC computers will benefit from it.
In the past I had two ideas to improve the 1541:
1- add an harddisk
2- replace the floppydrive and custom IC with a PC
The advantages of using a harddisk should clear. And I came with three ideas how to do it
- the not so quick and very dirty method: no extra IC's needed, only cables
- (two) extra 6522 plus 74xx138
- real IDE interface
But all three methods needed another ROM in the first place. I also realised that extra RAM was needed. This and the altered hardware meant less compatibility.
So I came with the idea to replace the mechanical drive and a part of the circuit with a PC and in such a way no extra IC's were needed.:
http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/pcflop.htm
Advantages:
- extra resources like CD-ROM, LPT, RS232 etc.
- no flopies needed anymore
- no change of ROM needed
- no extra RAM needed
- seen from the point of view of the software: still the same hardware
The last two points mean 100% compatibility.
The problems I ran into was:
- LPT port was to slow
- the combination of INT and DRAM refresh of the PC messed things up.
The third idea was to combine one part of the IDE-idea, adding an extra 6522, with a part of PC-FLOP, using a PC. A disadvantage of the IDE project is the amount of work that has to be done to write a new ROM. And I have the impression that it should be possible to provide the 1541 with a ROM that only contains the basic instructions for the PC and that the PC should do the actual heavy work.
Advantage:
- no extra RAM needed
- more flexible then the above two ideas IMHO
- the onboard 6522 will do
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Ok, I'll bite again. The PC-Flop would be a "castrated" 1541 with the IEC bus in one end and a LPT interface in the other, which connects to an external PC? Then some logic to map signals. Something like an ultra advanced, reverse used X*1541 cable with back-end (middleware) software to emulate a real drive?
Either way, it sounds cool. At first I thought you were thinking about integrating a small PC board inside a 1541, and stuffing a HD together with it, so rather than addressing the HD with 1541 hardware, you would use the PC hardware and have some internal interface to input/output data on the IEC bus. I suppose there are few or none off-the-shelf products that would fit into those shells.
Either way, it sounds cool. At first I thought you were thinking about integrating a small PC board inside a 1541, and stuffing a HD together with it, so rather than addressing the HD with 1541 hardware, you would use the PC hardware and have some internal interface to input/output data on the IEC bus. I suppose there are few or none off-the-shelf products that would fit into those shells.
Anders Carlsson