Big sorry to all here

[Thomas Hechelhammer]

It seems some people were upset when I posted my opinions about selling hardware and the asked prices.

As a consequence I've deleted some of my postings.

Please calm down all together.

What can I do better in the future?

Staying out of trading_and_selling postings?


Any comments welcome.

-- Thomas

[Jeff-20]

As long as we are having mature discussion and no one feels personally attacked, I do not mind conflicting opinions at all. I think it is perfectly natural to have different views.

[eslapion]

It seems some people were upset when I posted my opinions about selling hardware and the asked prices.

Even though I did not necessarily agree with some of your postings, I must say I was surprised by the reaction of some other people who felt your postings were not a positive contribution.

I believe this reaction comes from the fact that you seem to claim that certain things are worth much less than the money that is being asked to pay for it.

However, the alternatives you offer are simply and clearly out of reach to people who do not have a huge baggage of highly advanced technical and technological knowledge. In other words what you are saying is what I offer is no good because it is supposedly too expensive but the other way requires something nobody has and for most people it represents a dead end.

The purpose of science, technology and engineering is not to create a restrictive elite club of people who can enjoy certain benefits of life at a very low cost because these resources are unusable by the uninitiated. Its purpose is to discover the complexities and intricacies of nature and physic to offer its greatest benefits to the masses.

After all, the motto that Jack Tramiel used to define what we have known as Commodore Business Machines is "computers for the masses, not just the classes".

A product that is usable by the greatest amount of people requires the least amount of effort, knowledge and investment from the user or consumer of the product and the greatest amount of effort, knowledge and investment on the part of the maker.

In other words, by making these claims, which are in part a form of disinformation, you are sabotaging my effort, my knowledge and my investment. You are also insulting ordinary people because this means if they can't access your solution then they are no good.

Saying that anyone can easily build certain things is not the truth. It is a false claim. You may say that's not what you said but clearly that is the way it was intended to be understood.

Somehow, I feel you have a difficulty realizing that not everybody knows what you know and by communicating the way you do you make some people feel insulted.

If you really want to make a positive contribution, offer something that is accessible to everyone.

Personnally, I sell my expanders because they require a lot of time, money and effort on my part. But there are other things I charge nothing for, such as the instructions for Sargon II, Seafox and Programmer's Aid I recovered and published on Zimmer's. I believe everyone benefits from that.

See: http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/ ... index.html

[Thomas Hechelhammer]

However, the alternatives you offer are simply and clearly out of reach to people who do not have a huge baggage of highly advanced technical and technological knowledge. In other words what you are saying is what I offer is no good because it is supposedly too expensive but the other way requires something nobody has and for most people it represents a dead end.

You will not find any word me saying your work isn't good or worth anything.

In 1999 I've offered some VIC-hardware to the public, the 128k Expander with SID-option for 50 Euro without SID.

PCB, RAM, MMU and logic just for plug_in and enjoy.

Law has changed over the years and not only for this reason I'm no longer offering any new hardware to the people.

I'm working as Federal civil servant ("Bundesbeamter") and will run into big problems doing anything against the law.

Personnally, I sell my expanders because they require a lot of time, money and effort on my part. But there are other things I charge nothing for, such as the instructions for Sargon II, Seafox and Programmer's Aid I recovered and published on Zimmer's. I believe everyone benefits from that.

OK, I didn't want to dig deeper, you are offering your expanders for about 165 US$ each. This was Tue Jun 27, 2006.
http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bul ... php?t=1228

Then in another posting, they are less expensive, around 40 US$.
This was Thu Aug 03, 2006.
http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bul ... php?t=1303

What's the difference?

If you really want to make a positive contribution, offer something that is accessible to everyone.

AFAIK I've scanned the old issues of DENIAL, the printed-issues, and you can download them here if you like.

http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/archive.htm

And on Zimmer's FTP, you can also find parts of my work I've done working with the commodore-prototype, the C65.

http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/c65/index.html

Somewhere you can find the completely scanned and error-checked manual of the C65. I did some parts of this work together with Frank Kontros.

I can remember I've spent several hours with this stuff.

Some years ago I've produced printed issues of the famous c-hacking magazine.
Most of them went as presents to friends of the cbm-scene.

---

Use google and search for my name, you will probably dig out some more stuff.
I also wrote many articles about the internals of the Porsche 944 engine and motronic.

Also check the newsgroup comp.sys.cbm .

But I forgot, this doesn't count.
I'm the bad boy who says "too expensive".

It seems you don't know anything about me and my background.

I think you have something personal against me and I wonder why.

-- Thomas

[dragos]

Once again, and perhaps its your grasp of english, you are not getting it. The difference in the expanders price is CLEARLY STATED in the articles

It only becomes low cost when it is on a pcb, which only becomes cost effective in larger batches.

and it does seem that you are bent on him not selling anything and making fun of his work! using the excuse of the law to not provide a 32k expander/sid board doesnt hold water! What is illegal about selling or making your own invention?

it really doesnt matter what your background is if you are being a jerk.

he has even said you know alot, but you also presume to know the skill level of the average hobyist. if you can make somehting better for yourself, more power to you. a lot of us cannot, and we buy others creations.

[eslapion]

OK, I didn't want to dig deeper, you are offering your expanders for about 165 US$ each. This was Tue Jun 27, 2006.

Actually there was this guy I was discussing with this morning. He wants me to build him a special handmade mega expander with 7 female slots. He was willing to pay 315$ for it.

I think it is worth it considering I won't be able to do anything else for about a week.

Too expensive? I'm sure you will do it anytime for a very low cost right?

Maybe I should just give to him for free and beg for money to pay my rent and food.

Naaa, don't think so.

[Boray]

I've really not followed this discussion. But isn't this very simple really? If somebody asks a price that is too high, then nobody will buy it! Simple as that...

[Boray]

...And if someone asks for forgiveness, I don't think it's nice to continue to bad-mouth him...

[eslapion]

Posted by you at 6:11am this morning:

I've bought this expansion afaik in early 2002 when we went from DM to Euro.

For a used VIC20 I pay on flea-markets around 10 - 15 Euro for computer + some modules.

-- Thomas

This post was sent by you in the VERY SAME MINUTE I posted my final pricing info for my 32k expander.

You are NOT SORRY. You are out to destroy anyone who tries to do anything good. This is a defamation campain and I am the target of it.

This "asking for forgiveness" is totally unsincere considering what you went on posting afterwards.

You need to see a psychiatrist. I haven't done you anything to deserve this. Get help!

I mean, who could possibly be maniacal enough to follow what I post on a minute to minute basis ?!?!? I have never seen somebody other than you do something like that. GET A LIFE!

Why don't you go and crucify Maurice Randall for a change? He charges 20$ for a simple 1$ EPROM chip with some code on it. You know what I think he fully deserves that money.

[Thomas Hechelhammer]

You need to see a psychiatrist. I haven't done you anything to deserve this. Get help!

And I think you need to install Eliza on your computer.

I mean, who could possibly be maniacal enough to follow what I post on a minute to minute basis ?!?!? I have never seen somebody other than you do something like that. GET A LIFE!

You are paranoid enough thinking I'm watching your posts just for sending an answer quite some seconds later.
In a language I really don't speak well.

I need at least 5 minutes typing in something.

Think about this ... and stop flaming.


-- Thomas

[6502dude]

...And if someone asks for forgiveness, I don't think it's nice to continue to bad-mouth him...

I totally agree.

[Alan]

You are paranoid enough thinking I'm watching your posts just for sending an answer quite some seconds later.

Your behavior does seem rather odd. And by odd, I mean juvenile. As Boray said above, if you aren't interested in buying something, don't buy it. Your continual negative posts regarding eslapion and what he is selling isn't helping anyone, and they make you look childish and petty.

It seems that whenever he posts a price, or announces some product, you feel obligated to mention that you bought one five years ago for 1/3 the price from some guy no one can find anymore. So what? Your intentions are obvious, so you can lay off the 'poor innocent me' routine.

One of the nice things about Denial has always been the friendly atmosphere, and you are frankly ruining that. That's the real shame here.

[vic user]

good vibes to you all, and hope none of you stop dropping by the Denial forum.

[Jeff-20]

word! Peace to all of the universe.