RetroTink and the VIC-20

[cbmeeks]

Has anyone here used their VIC-20 with a RetroTink?

I know there is an S-Video mod for the VIC-20 so I was thinking with that mod and the RetroTink, it would hopefully provide a nice display using modern monitors. I would be curious if the C64 (with S-Video) would also look good.

I'm thinking about buying one as I've seen some positive reviews. Especially with computers/consoles and S-Video or component output.

Thanks

[majikeyric]

VIC20 : I had both (S-Video mod and RetroTink) but I had to remove the S-Video mod because display was black and white (with RetroTink), I don't know why unfortunately....

C64 (with S-Video) : it works well, looks very good, scrollings are very smooth too, despite a white pixel column in the left screen border.

[cbmeeks]

Ugh. I've seen that pixel bar on Adrian Black's YouTube channel too. I just assumed it was just his setup somehow (he uses a RetroTink too).
I haven't heard of that bar with game consoles.

But if the VIC-20 has issues with S-Video and the C64 has that white bar, then it may not be for me. Especially since it's $130 or so.

Thanks for the info.

[English Invader]

I've mentioned this before but I think the acid test for a modern display is how it fares in game with something like Galaga - black background with red or blue colours. Are you seeing the blue/red clearly or are you struggling? A lot of people see the boot-up screen and think "Oh, wonderful!" but you really do need to kick the tyres if you intend to actually use the system.

I haven't actually tried hooking up the VIC to a modern TV but I know from other systems that it will be a waste of time trying it with composite and I'm yet to be convinced by S-Video. Unless the system has RGB-Scart I won't even bother hooking up to a modern TV.

[Gyro Gearloose]

After dabbling with scan rate converters from the cheap Chinese junk to expensive professional units, I can say that almost none of them work acceptably with Commodore signals. They will all output something, but there's always problems. Jittery pixels, low contrast, wrong colors, etc
The only consumer units that work reasonably well are the ViewSonic units. But they don't make them anymore AFAIK.

I also tried to make my own years ago with a chip called the AL250 but somehow it never responded to commands like the datasheet said, and the colors never worked. (I gave up that project sadly. It was originally for the 128 RGBI port but adding video would have added just a few chips.)

If I had the money I'd buy a RetroTink. I suppose you could tinker with it to get rid of the white line. I assume you can just start capturing valid video later after the hsync and not digitize artifacts that were never visible on CRTs.

[Noizer]

Yes GyroG, I know That pain after changing from CRT to OLED. Do you want to see clear vic20 pixels on HDMI with only additional 5V USB Power Supply? Who needs an expensive PC with Vice?
https://retrogames.biz/news
https://retrogames.biz/thec64

[English Invader]

I've mentioned this before but I think the acid test for a modern display is how it fares in game with something like Galaga - black background with red or blue colours. Are you seeing the blue/red clearly or are you struggling? A lot of people see the boot-up screen and think "Oh, wonderful!" but you really do need to kick the tyres if you intend to actually use the system.

I haven't actually tried hooking up the VIC to a modern TV but I know from other systems that it will be a waste of time trying it with composite and I'm yet to be convinced by S-Video. Unless the system has RGB-Scart I won't even bother hooking up to a modern TV.

I just broke the habit of a lifetime and tried out the C64 on a flatscreen through composite and was pleasantly surprised. I tested with Berzerk Redux and Space Taxi (both games have black backgrounds with other colours wandering around like Galaga) and was able to play them both fine without issue. I also played Mayhem in Monsterland for a bit and again, fine. I haven't tried the VIC-20 yet but I don't see how it would be any different to the C64. It's not the best picture and the image comes across a little bit smudgy but fully playable so far. It's early days but I'm going to keep playing and I'll let you guys know if any problems come up. The VIC will get a run soon but for now I'm enjoying the C64.

The TV I'm using is a Pansonic TX-L32XM6B. It's a TV I inherited from my grandfather when he died last year at the age of 91 and it has a lot of legacy ports and features that make it useful for running old computers and game consoles:
https://www.panasonic.com/uk/support/di ... specs.html

[akator]

I've been using this relatively inexpensive "Tendak" converter for over 3 years with a VIC and S-video. So far I haven't had any problems. I haven't noticed any significant lag/latency. I also use this with an Atari 800XL, Sega Genesis/32x/CD, and PlayStation. S-video looks better but it does an acceptable job with composite.

From what I've seen online, the RetroTink has a better picture. One day I hope to buy a RetroTink as an upgrade. If it doesn't work perfectly with the VIC, I'll keep the Tendak with the VIC and use the RetroTink with the other systems.

[English Invader]

I've mentioned this before but I think the acid test for a modern display is how it fares in game with something like Galaga - black background with red or blue colours. Are you seeing the blue/red clearly or are you struggling? A lot of people see the boot-up screen and think "Oh, wonderful!" but you really do need to kick the tyres if you intend to actually use the system.

I haven't actually tried hooking up the VIC to a modern TV but I know from other systems that it will be a waste of time trying it with composite and I'm yet to be convinced by S-Video. Unless the system has RGB-Scart I won't even bother hooking up to a modern TV.

I just broke the habit of a lifetime and tried out the C64 on a flatscreen through composite and was pleasantly surprised. I tested with Berzerk Redux and Space Taxi (both games have black backgrounds with other colours wandering around like Galaga) and was able to play them both fine without issue. I also played Mayhem in Monsterland for a bit and again, fine. I haven't tried the VIC-20 yet but I don't see how it would be any different to the C64. It's not the best picture and the image comes across a little bit smudgy but fully playable so far. It's early days but I'm going to keep playing and I'll let you guys know if any problems come up. The VIC will get a run soon but for now I'm enjoying the C64.

The TV I'm using is a Pansonic TX-L32XM6B. It's a TV I inherited from my grandfather when he died last year at the age of 91 and it has a lot of legacy ports and features that make it useful for running old computers and game consoles:
https://www.panasonic.com/uk/support/di ... specs.html

Just fired up the VIC and can confirm the picture is just as good as with the C64. Tested with Avenger, Star Battle, Berzerk MMX and Shark Attack. Also had time and space to hook up the Atari 2600 (Junior model) through RF and got a pixel perfect picture for my trouble; haven't tried the woody but will do in the not too distant future.

[JonBrawn]

So, has anybody tried using a RetroTink 2X Pro with composite video from a VIC-20 (Not a C-64 - the NTSC produced by a VIC is "more special" than that produced by a C-64).

[mathop]

So, has anybody tried using a RetroTink 2X Pro with composite video from a VIC-20 (Not a C-64 - the NTSC produced by a VIC is "more special" than that produced by a C-64).

I will try this out later today. I suspect that the retrotink won't like the interlaced mode but it should not have any problem with progressive (i.e. normal) output.

[akator]

Since I posted in 2020 I got a RetroTink 2X Pro.

• The S-Video works flawlessly with my VIC-20, Atari 800XL, and Sega Genesis/32X/Sega CD. When I first got the RetroTink I tried composite and it also worked well for those systems, but the S-Video definitely looks better.
• It had serious issues with PlayStation 1. At best it displayed without color, but about half the time it wouldn't lock onto a signal at all. I tried with 3 different PS1 systems and several different cables, it was the same across all of them. My old Chinese Tendak upscaler still handled PS1 fine so for a while I used that. Recently I bought a separate Hyperkin HDMI upscaler for the PS1 that works great, basically doing what I hoped the RetroTink would.
• The RetroTink couldn't handle the changing video sync from the Atari 2600 and frequently dropped the signal (black screen). I eventually gave up on that and have continued using the old Tendak for original 2600 hardware. My alternative is a Hyperkin RetroN 77, which already has HDMI output so no need for an upscaler, and it works and plays amazingly.
• My Dreamcast already has a HDMI cable which simply outputs the Dreamcast's VGA 640x480 to HDMI. It looks amazing.

So I'm kind of mixed on the RetroTink 2X Pro. When it works, it works great. Unfortunately it just doesn't handle all of my systems.

[mathop]

Retrotink 2X Pro works fine with VIC20 composite video in non-interlaced mode.
In interlaced mode the display becomes a bit fuzzy vertically, but still all right to look at.
Below are some single-frame captures from the HDMI output.
In non-interlace there is an artifact at the bottom of the screen, probably because there are not enough lines.

Non-interlaced:

Interlaced: (2 fields)

note that the main display in the second field is offset slightly to the one in the first.