Which new games would you like to see on your VIC20?

Discuss anything related to the VIC

please vote for a categorie, see examples in brackets

jump and run (super mario, giana sisters)
18
40%
run and shoot (rambo)
7
16%
card-games (poker)
0
No votes
puzzles (sokoban, tetris)
2
4%
adventures (text-adventures and other)
2
4%
board-games (chess, reversi)
0
No votes
simulations (sim city, hamurabi)
13
29%
3d games (duke nukem)
3
7%
 
Total votes: 45

Thomas Hechelhammer
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Post by Thomas Hechelhammer »

orion70 wrote: PS- Sorry Thomas, this was a bit OT. To get IT again: does a VIC version of this notorious turn-based strategy program exist? :wink:

Image
AFAIK Archon exists only for the following platforms:

C64, Amiga, NES, ZXSpectrum, Atari800, Apple II and Amstrad CPC.

The game was developed in 1983, and so probably not developed for the vic20 because the c64 market grew more and more.

It wouldn't be the big issue to port it down to the vic20 because both processors are code-compatible.
You will "only" have to adapt the display and analyse the computer-human interface in the game code...

The game needs about 44k as TAP-image.

-- Thomas
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orion70
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Post by orion70 »

...so, it should be shrinked by *more than half*!. A big effort in this sense, isn't it? But perhaps, playing around with sounds and animation, it can be done.

What do our Denial Forum experts say? Anyone to fly in the face of this task :shock: ?
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eslapion
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Post by eslapion »

orion70 wrote:...so, it should be shrinked by *more than half*!. A big effort in this sense, isn't it? But perhaps, playing around with sounds and animation, it can be done.

What do our Denial Forum experts say? Anyone to fly in the face of this task :shock: ?
You wouldn't have to shrink it so much if it was made for the 32k expander...

On another note... I would love to see M.U.L.E. for the VIC.
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Post by carlsson »

I have no idea how tight coded e.g. Archon is. Probably one could develop a simplified mini version, if nothing else. Personally, there is another contemporary turn-based Electronic Arts game that is closer to my heart... one that takes place on planet Irata. :-)

Jump'n'run games not only need software sprites, they need scrolling too. Certainly it can be doable in text resolution with some VIC tricks and timing. 3D games pretty much smell bitmapped graphics which tend to cost a lot of memory and in most cases are dog slow on a C64. All the other categories don't pursue any technical difficulties per se, but of course it depends on the implementation.

A caveat: you usually don't dictate what other people should put their spare time into. Of course you can make wishes or inspire someone, but in the end it appears to be personal satisfaction that determines which new software gets developed. Sometimes it appears the community doesn't even notice new developments, which makes it even more into a business of personal joy or not.
Anders Carlsson

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Thomas Hechelhammer
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Post by Thomas Hechelhammer »

eslapion wrote:
On another note... I would love to see M.U.L.E. for the VIC.
M.U.L.E. eats up a lot of memory, too.
I've looked into the d64-image, it eats up about 52 k but this includes intro and gameplay.

Image

However, I'm not the friend of those emulations, I like more the fast and quick jump and run games. :D

@carlsson
you usually don't dictate what other people should put their spare time into. Of course you can make wishes or inspire someone, but in the end it appears to be personal satisfaction that determines which new software gets developed.
For sure you are right with your opinion. I've started this poll to see what kind of games the community would like to see on their toy.
Between our 447 registered users we'll have for sure some talented coders, so probably this will give them some inspirations.

And, I forgot one genre: maze-games like bomberman, zzap and super-alien.

Too bad I cannot edit the poll. :(

Regards, Thomas
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ral-clan
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Post by ral-clan »

orion70 wrote:
PS- Sorry Thomas, this was a bit OT. To get IT again: does a VIC version of this notorious turn-based strategy program exist? :wink:

Image
Whoah! ARCHON was one of my all time favourite C64 games. Would love to see that on the VIC!
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ral-clan
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Post by ral-clan »

The VIC-20 really needs some turn-based squad combat games, like the ones made by SSI for the Commodore 64. These shouldn't be a problem on the VIC-20. Easier if made on a square grid map than a hex-grid.

One day if I get the time....!

A good WWII turn-based game where you control a squad of soldiers confronting another squad in an urban (buildings, trees) environment....
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Post by carlsson »

In the mean time, you can play the Napoleon Simulator by Ghislain, entered into the 4K category of the MiniGame Compo. Voting is going on right now, ending on the 30th of September. I was positively surprised that a such simple looking game could be so playable.
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Post by carlsson »

A graphic difficulty about Archon is that the board consists of at least three background colours. Maybe more; I remember it cycles, but not if it involves more than black, white and neutral. Preferrably add two distinct foreground colours, and you have a slight graphic issue to tackle. You could do it with blocky low resolution graphics (4x8) using border colour for one player and auxillary colour (high nybble of 36878) for the other player and use character colour for different background. It would look quite ugly, but could work. Here's a mock-up using solid blocks rather than detailed graphics. Each graphic could have a resolution of 8x16 double width pixels (occupying 2x2 squares).

Image

As an alternative, perhaps one can use raster timing to constantly change background colour for each square, but it sounds very time consuming and sensitive to timing faults.
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ral-clan
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Post by ral-clan »

carlsson wrote:A graphic difficulty about Archon is that the board consists of at least three background colours. Maybe more; I remember it cycles, but not if it involves more than black, white and neutral. Preferrably add two distinct foreground colours, and you have a slight graphic issue to tackle.
Perhaps it would be possible to use dithering to simulate shade changes on the squares that oscillate from dark to light....i.e. putting dots on every other pixel in the square in a checker-board (draughts) fashion.

Also, perhaps it would be possible to avoid using seperate colours for the game pieces by using one colour for the left side, and the same colour - but only drawing the outline of the the character forms with this colour - on the right side pieces.
Thomas Hechelhammer
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Post by Thomas Hechelhammer »

carlsson wrote: As an alternative, perhaps one can use raster timing to constantly change background colour for each square, but it sounds very time consuming and sensitive to timing faults.
Hello Carlsson.

The foreground begins at rasterline x.
At rasterline x-1 you can initialize 2 CIA timer.
Timer 1 runs one screen and goes to zero each rasterline x-1 and produces an interrupt.
Timer 2 runs 16 rasterlines (2 chars), which means:
interrupt @ x-1: set auxiliary color 1 (start of squares)
interrupt @ x-1 +(16*1) : set auxiliary color 2
....
interrupt @ x-1 +(16*8) : set auxiliary color n
interrupt @ x-1 +(16*9) : set auxiliary color 0 (no more squares, end of playfield, no more changes)

When Timer 1 goes to zero: initialize timer 2 again

This method wouldn't be very time-consuming, you need a counter for a table which contains the values for the auxiliary-colors you set in the raster-range.

Timing isn't critical, when the next line -1 is reached (IRQ) you can poll the raster-register for better timing.

Using two timers will slow down the speed of the computer of 1/10 because we have more interrupts.

The timer-values and line x depend on either PAL or NTSC-VIC.


@Admin: It would make sense to split the discussion and move this part to a programming-section.

-- Thomas
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Post by carlsson »

Hm, I was considering moving the whole thread into the Games section, but maybe it should be split into subtopics. If someone is serious about programming Archon, it could be a thread on its own (in Programming) and various techniques like the raster split you described could be evaluated if they are practically useful. If someone is developing another game, it can be another thread.

Currently we have Programming, Games and Programs (Basic or ML) sections; I don't know where WIP threads belong. On AtariAge, they have one section about homebrew games side by side to the programming sections.
Anders Carlsson

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idrougge
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Re: Which new games would you like to see on your VIC20?

Post by idrougge »

Thomas Hechelhammer wrote:But pixel-soft-scrolling of the map-image would be impossible.
Aleksi Eeben's Dragonwing (my favourite VIC game) scrolls very softly, but then again it uses very few characters to build up its screen.
C128, C128D, C64, C64C, ABC80, ABC800, ABC806, 130XE, ZX81, Spectrum 48k, Dragon 32, TI99/4A, Laser 200, Spectravideo 328, Sord M5, VIC20...
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Victragic
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Elite for Vic20

Post by Victragic »

Hi all,

first time post, so I'm fresh faced.. I recently started messing around with VICE, aproximately 20 years after I got rid of my first VIC20..

I did buy a second machine circa 1993, but unfortunately the power supply burned out rather quickly, so it ended up in the trash. Pity, as I thought I had picked up a bargain and finally had the HES monitor I never could afford. It's nice mucking around with emulators, but not the same as the real machine..

I don't know if it has been tried, but I would think that a version of Elite on the VIC20 (32k of course) would be a pinnacle of an achievement.

The original Elite for BBC was written for a 32k machine, as was the port to the Electron.. the Electron might be the better version to try to port as the speed of the machine is most similar to the Vic.. of course the architectures of the machines are completely different but how hard could it be? The graphics display parts could be adapted from the 64 version I think.

Reason I think Elite would be a good project to convert is that I feel that vector-style graphic effects on the VIC suffer less in conversion than full-colour 'sprite'-based graphics. I would probably expand the screen to a 28x35 matrix (PAL) which is perfect viewing for VICE, but probably not great for a real VIC as most TVs, monitors would use over-scan and lose the edges - still it wouldn't matter much for such a game. Just a personal thing, I've always hated the VIC borders.

Has anyone attempted Elite? Am I insane for considering it? Are there any inherent problems anyone can foresee with this?

Cheers,
-G
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ral-clan
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Re: Elite for Vic20

Post by ral-clan »

Victragic wrote:Reason I think Elite would be a good project to convert is that I feel that vector-style graphic effects on the VIC suffer less in conversion than full-colour 'sprite'-based graphics.
The only true vector graphics game I can think of on the Amiga (i.e. true vector graphics rather than simulated bitmapped ones like Omega Race) is BLACK HOLE.

EDIT: Oops I mean VIC-20 not Amiga. Just got off Amiga.org!
Last edited by ral-clan on Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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