Tips on moving to Linux?

[English Invader]

It's surprising how addictive Linux can be. I've done everything I need to do to keep my old laptops running past the XP cut-off date, but there's a part of me that wants to go further and it's got to the point where I want to upgrade just to have more Linux options.

I'm in a fortunate position in that I have no major dependency on Windows and could make a complete switch and just enjoy the ride.

[ral-clan]

Well, I think I will be booting into Linux on days when I just need to browse / e-mail / write a letter on a word processor / watch YouTube, etc.

Still glad to have Windows on the machine for video editing - and probably still for emulation. I'm not sure yet if the Amiga emulation in Linux is as polished as WinUAE (I really push emulators by using Amiga 3d modelling/rendering software and MIDI music sequencers and WinUAE is stellar for that).

But I'm enjoying Linux so far.

Funny though. I heard that FS-UAE is the most mature Amiga emulator for Linux, but I can find it neither in Lubuntu's software repository nor in the Synaptic software repository/centre thingy.

E-UAE was in a repository and installed automatically once I selected it. But it doesn't seem as if E-UAE is as well developed (it's not at version 1.0 yet).

Looks like I have to download straight from the FS-UAE site? Haven't had too much experience installing that way...

[rhurst]

That emotional loop sounds about right to me.

The Amigans I've been around gravitated to Intel 486 and Pentium workstations for its DOS games and to dual boot for Linux, all around the time Commodore bellied-up (May 1994) and before Windows '98 SE got the clue. There was a comfort level with native multitasking, shell (CLI), and the option to start a Workbench (loadwb begat startx). It also had a strong PPP dialer and Netscape, before Windows '95 started.

Throw a free C compiler in and some OSS web sites to visit regularly, such as Freshmeat and Slashdot, and you were in an uber-geek haven.

But back to your point on the experience, the Amiga frustration-awe loop also translated nicely to Linux.

[rhurst]

e-uae is getting long in the tooth, still built off of the open source uae, but with a GTK front-end. It leverages SDL and some OpenGL primitives to allow for an improved screen filtering/rendering process.

I had no idea about fs-uae, but found their instructions for Fedora to work as described on their site. Again, it's all about the packaging, i.e., RPM from a repository:

Code: Select all

cd /etc/yum.repos.d/
wget http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:FrodeSolheim:stable/Fedora_20/home:FrodeSolheim:stable.repo
yum install fs-uae fs-uae-launcher fs-uae-arcade kernel-modules-extra
================================================================================================================
 Package                       Arch        Version                          Repository                     Size
================================================================================================================
Installing:
 fs-uae                        x86_64      2.4.1-1.1                        home_FrodeSolheim_stable      3.0 M
 fs-uae-arcade                 noarch      2.4.1-1.1                        home_FrodeSolheim_stable      7.1 M
 fs-uae-launcher               noarch      2.4.1-1.1                        home_FrodeSolheim_stable      1.5 M
 kernel                        x86_64      3.13.9-200.fc20                  updates                        31 M
 kernel-modules-extra          x86_64      3.13.9-200.fc20                  updates                       2.0 M
Removing:
 kernel                        x86_64      3.13.5-202.fc20                  @updates                      133 M
 kernel-modules-extra          x86_64      3.13.5-202.fc20                  @updates                      8.1 M
Installing for dependencies:
 PyOpenGL                      noarch      3.0.2-1.fc20                     fedora                        1.3 M
 PyQt4                         x86_64      4.10.2-5.fc20                    updates                       3.0 M
 kde-filesystem                x86_64      4-46.fc20                        fedora                         48 k
 libqzeitgeist                 x86_64      0.8.0-10.fc20                    fedora                         72 k
 numpy                         x86_64      1:1.8.0-4.fc20                   updates                       2.9 M
 phonon                        x86_64      4.7.1-1.fc20                     updates                       220 k
 phonon-backend-gstreamer      x86_64      2:4.7.1-1.fc20                   updates                       146 k
 pygame                        x86_64      1.9.1-14.fc20                    fedora                        2.1 M
 python-nose                   noarch      1.3.0-1.fc20                     fedora                        272 k
 qt-mobility                   x86_64      1.2.2-0.5.20120224git.fc20       fedora                        3.0 M
 qtwebkit                      x86_64      2.3.3-3.fc20                     updates                        10 M
 sip                           x86_64      4.14.7-2.fc20                    fedora                        123 k

Transaction Summary
================================================================================================================
Install  5 Packages (+12 Dependent packages)
Remove   2 Packages

Total download size: 68 M
Is this ok [y/d/N]: y

The instructions include a DIY compile the source, too. Not trivial, but certainly doable.

[ral-clan]

I got FS-UAE installed. It's definitely very nice - it has a nice UI. So far it's not behaving very well with Amiga Retargetable graphics (i.e. Picaso96) - very slow, but works. Probably just have to figure out how to configure it properly.

I was surprised that FS-UAE doesn't seem to allow you to use your computer's optical drive as a drive under Amiga emulation. WinUAE does. For FS-UAE, it seems you have to mount .ISO images so that the emulator can see them as inserted CD-ROM discs / DVD-ROM etc.

Also, there doesn't seem to be a provision to pass through the emulated Amiga's MIDI ports to the actual underlying Linux OS. This is something that WinUAE does and it allows me to run Amiga based MIDI music sequencing software and control external hardware instruments. That definitely means I'll be booting into Windows to do my Amiga emulation, and only using FS-UAE for the occasional Amiga game, etc, which it seems to handle well.

Still have to learn how to ininstall manually installed software (I installed a MAME front-end which I realized later I do not want). Also, removing icons from the Lubuntu "desktop" doesn't seem to be easy/possible from the GUI, I have to drop into the CLI for that (but still have to learn how).\

Lots of little things to learn....

[groepaz]

one magic thing about *nixish systems is that there generally is no difference between a "file" and a "device" ... when you can mount an image file, you can also mount the respective media on the physical drive.... eg instead of "image.iso" you just enter "/dev/sdr0" (or whatever your cdrom is) and it will magically work (given the right permissions, you may need to do this as root user).

eg you can mount a real 3.5" disk for use with the 1581 emulation in VICE by using "/dev/fd0". or a real sd-card for use in mmc64/mmcr emulation by using "/dev/sdb0" (or whatever your sd card reader is)

[ral-clan]

Thanks Greopaz, that is very helpful.

One simple thing that i *just* cannot figure out is how to delete an icon (maybe it's called a "shortcut" in Linux) from my desktop.

It's easy to create a desktop shortcut for an application - from the start menu I just right click on the icon from that application and choose "SHOW ON DESKTOP".

But I mistakenly did this twice for an application, and now there are TWO icons for the same application on my desktop! I cannot figure out how to remove the extra one.

Apparently, Lubuntu uses LXDE instead of Gnome to provide a desktop GUI. So all the Ubuntu instructuctions for doing this refer to a Gnome solution which does not work in LXDE.

I'm actually rather shocked that it's not straightforward (i.e. right click on icon, choose "hide"), as I'm sure it's something people need to do all the time.

[groepaz]

well, you probably shouldnt be using such a "lightweight" desktop as a beginner.... they are called lightweight for a reason, and often things must be configured using config files. if you use gnome or kde all that stuff will work similar to what you know from windows.

[rhurst]

Sweet!
[youtube]hffIlb6YpFs[/youtube]

[ral-clan]

well, you probably shouldnt be using such a "lightweight" desktop as a beginner.... they are called lightweight for a reason, and often things must be configured using config files. if you use gnome or kde all that stuff will work similar to what you know from windows.

You're probably right. However, since my computer is from 2008 - a single core P4 - I choose the lightweight distro intentionally.

I do think I'll get this eventually (knock on wood). I grew up on command line interfaces (C64, DOS, Amiga, Unix shell accounts) - so hopefully it is just a matter of time. On the positive side, I hear that most advanced users eventually end up doing most things in the shell anyway. So perhaps it will work out in the end.

[Vic20-Ian]

The thing that annoys me about Linux sometimes is that basic tasks are complex or obscure.

I am exploring Raspberry Pi with my son.

We have managed to:

1. Run the Noobs installation of Raspbian.

2. Setup and login

3. Navigated to demo programs folder cd opt/vc/src/hello_pi

4. Run the compilation with ./rebuild.sh

5. Navigated to the program directories with cd hello_tiger etc.

6. Listed directories with LS to identify programs

7. Run the demo with ./hello_tiger.bin

8. Even shortcuts like ./ <Tab> to save typing the command which is nice

9. Viewed the source code with nano main.c


So - why for the life of me can't I figure out how to read the readme file in some directories with nano readme?

Why are the Linux Help Commands and Man commands unhelpful

http://www.raspberrypi.org/learning/demo-programs/

Why does the Linux community put up weak documentation for beginners - the above tells you how to run the stuff but not where to go for help when it does not work. (I have looked unsuccessfully on the forum)

e.g. hello_triangle 2 runs and displays Mandelbrot but the program does not respond to the mouse as the description says it should to move the Mandelbrot display. When I start X windows the mouse is working fine.

Is there a secret command to enable the mouse under console?

I suppose it might be equivalent to me needing to learn the right commands like under MS-DOS by setting mouse driver in config.sys or autoexec.bat to get the mouse to work.

So why - with a new out of the box installation, with as installed demo software, does the demo not work correctly and why is there no link to the correct area of the forum to get help. The documentation seems weak for what is essentially one of the first steps you might try.

Sometimes these things seem so obscure you wonder if Linux is worth it yet. I am sure it is no different really to problems in Windows but somehow it does feel MORE difficult.

Any tips on where to look next would be appreciated. (rant over)

[Vic20-Ian]

Googling elsewhere to try and get the mouse working in console I found this Ubuntu posting:

"Re: Enable mouse in terminal

General Purpose Mouse interface

This package provides a daemon that captures mouse events when the system
console is active, and delivers events to applications through a library.

By default, the daemon provides a 'selection' mode, so that
cut-and-paste with the mouse works on the console just as it does
under X.

Code:

sudo apt-get install gpm

Hope that helps. "


Do I need to do this - if so why?

Why was the Raspberry Pi configured with released code without this if it is needed to run the included demo?

I feel that this illustrated the kind of reason why Linux is not becoming more mainstream.

[groepaz]

I feel that this illustrated the kind of reason why Linux is not becoming more mainstream.

no, try to do the same thing with windows. good luck.

[rhurst]

AFAIK, the GPM (mouse on a physical console) optional startup service has been abandoned. Honestly, there's not much use for the physical console anymore, except perhaps for a low-level appliance use (like ARM, Atom, Raspberry Pi). And if you are working in that mode of operation, well, you kind of have to know what you're doing.

I think categorically weighing Linux documentation from that perspective is a bit of stretch, too. Your use-case is Raspbian -- a Debian distro. There are a lot of distros. Not all of them have weak documentation or the lack of strong community forum support. Pick another distro. Have you looked at Pidora?

[Vic20-Ian]

I think both your answers were somewhat unhelpful and in the style of some Linux forums I have visited previously.

i.e.

1. try and find the help in Windows it is harder - this is a non answer

and

2. Try a different distribution of Linux - implies that the first thing to do if you have a problem is uninstall your OS and install a new one - not at all time consuming

If you reflect on your responses you will see why the uninitiated who try and learn about Linux struggle and feel that the community is somewhat obtuse to newcomers.

Coming back to the problems, I have resolved them. For others who may try Linux or Raspberry Pi here are my answers.

The official NOOBS install of Raspian comes with demo code supplied. I compiled it all fine. I ran it all fine from command line except that one program did not run as described - moving the mouse did not move the fractals.

Q1. Do I need console mouse support to run from Command Line Interface?

A1. The mouse works in X windows. I reran the program through X Windows LX terminal and it works fine.

I will update if I decide to try adding mouse support in console and get it working there as well.

Why is this not mentioned in the run the demo code web page? It assumes everyone starting the Raspberry Pi in X Windows which is not the default at install, though it is an option. As all the programs are run from commands rather than an icon on the desktop Linux causes this problem

Running a terminal from CLI prompt vs. running in an LX Terminal should not cause a program to run differently in my opinion or there should be a warning or clearer instructions on the webpage.

The rather obscure answer about console terminal not being needed much anymore led me to work this out but I could have given up.


Q2. How do I open the readme file in the directory?

A2. nano readme does not open the file, I get a blank new file. nano README opened the file.

An answer like remember Linux is case sensitive unlike Dos e.g. readme <> README would have helped.



In my view if Linux users offered others more straight and sensible answers than e.g. change to another OS, then Linux uptake would improve.

Posting here on the friendly computer forum I thought would yield slightly better answers. Put your Vic hat on top of your Linux ones guys

What Linux needs to succeed is a Linux Denial style forum moderated so that only the most helpful answers are given.