Tips on moving to Linux?

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Vic 2000
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Vic 2000 »

I will now quote myself...
Vic 2000 wrote:Robert. :)

I was moderator in the Ubuntu forum for about a year. Most of the people in there was real hardcore Linux users, impossible to discuss with and most of them really loved Richard Stallman. After a long period of hate against everything except Linux i got tired of being moderator. When i watched some of them in action on Software Freedom Day in Stockholm...i understood why.

Notice the irony when the swedish slogan for Ubuntu was, "Linux för vanliga människor", i translate it to english. "Linux for ordinary people"

Image

Image

Now...that's irony on a high level.
To make a few quotations from this text...

FIVE REASONS I'D RATHER RUN WINDOWS 8 THAN LINUX
If you want to run an application, you just run it. You don't have to go through days of script hacks, package fights, version hassles, distro disturbances, and all the rest. With Windows, you just get your work done.
Reason #1: As soon as you mention one distro, all the fanboys go insane claiming you've made the wrong choice. You did it, didn't you? Just as soon as I mentioned Mint, a whole bunch of you started to foam at the mouth. Mint's not the distro-du-jour anymore. There's Bodhi. There's Xubuntu. There's the truly unfortunately named DouDou. Of course, there's Red Hat, Ubuntu, and even PCLinuxOS for those who really can't decide. That's not the point. I don't even mind that there are more than six hundred individual and different Linux distributions out there. No, it's the fanbois. As soon as you mention one distribution, everyone just jumps all over you insisting that his or her particular pet distribution is the best.
That why i quoted my own posting, i have been right in the middle of a crowd of hysteric Linux fanboys more then one time i can tell you. They fighted about everything, all the time, from wrong choice of Linux dists to FOSS or OSS, or God knows what.
That's really what it's all about. Windows is far more compatible, far more accepted, far more understood, and it works. By contrast, Linux is populated by a subculture of immaturity and pseudo-rebellion that's neither welcoming to newcomers or pleasant to professionals interested more in productivity than proletarian pronouncements.
Don't get me wrong here. Windows fanboys aren't exactly well-behaved. But compared to the Linux crybaby whiners, the Windows kids are little angels. After I wrote about the server crash back in 2011, there were a whole lot -- a whole, whole lot -- of comments and emails. Many weren't exactly nice, and many were wildly internally inconsistent. I wrote about it in Mea culpa: coming clean about my n00b Linux mistakes, but the best summary of the nutball Linux community reaction was a little video I put together that helps showcase the true Linux-lover lunacy.
Many of us use Linux every day. Thankfully, most of the people using Linux don't know they're using Linux. My octogenarian parents, for example, have been using their TiVo DVRs for years, but have no idea that there's a variant of Linux running deep inside. The guy who installed my kitchen cabinets, who loves his Android phone but insists Facebook is hard to use has no idea he's using a variant of Linux.
http://www.zdnet.com/five-reasons-id-ra ... 000025597/
groepaz
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by groepaz »

I didn't say Open source software = free software, I just said OSS can be had at no cost for everyone
infact, you are saying different things in every post you make. you even have the nerve on contradicting yourself in the next post and then accusing me of not understanding what you just mixed up.
the original statement was:
1) open source means free: even if somebody sells it (rightfully or not) the source must always be available for free.
2) false: anybody can modify open source and can even distribute it, you just need to quote the original developer.
... which contains so much nonsense its not funny anymore. and yes, you are repeating the mantra of the stallmann drones. you somehow either dont want, or are not capable of, realising that what the FSF and the OSI propaganda likes to tell is not the entire truth. they would like all open source software being available under those terms - but that doesnt change the fact that open source software exists that you are not allowed to freely distribute, that you can change and distribute only in binary form, and without naming the original developer at all. hell those facts were one of the main reasons for stallman and friends to start their gnu project and to come up with all that political babble about how "open" must equal "free".

but really, outside the gnu circlejerk, noone gives a flying fuck.
Don't missunderstand me, i don't dislike Linux at all. The problem is support because money and real big companies rules the market. Most companies don't care a bit about Linux and most stuff is made for Windows.
it really boils down to what you are planning to do with the computer, and if you depend on certain specific applications. eg for me linux works a whole lot better than windows. i dont use the pc for gaming (my c64 is much better at that =P) and i am not doing audio or video production either. my daily mail and web browsing works just fine on any OS. and then linux is just so much more convinient than windows for my job related stuff, which is software development.

for a beginner, i really think the biggest hurdle is the switch itself... a lot of things just work entirely different in linux than they do in windows (not necessarily worse or better). and you are indeed confronted with a legion of fanboy idiots that will let you know you are stupid for doing what you want to do, or for choosing the wrong distribution or desktop or even text editor (emacs vs vi idiotism is legendary). thats why personally i recommend starting with one of the distributions "made for idiots" - ubuntu for example. its reasonably popular, so you can find help on pretty much anything easily. and since it is a "beginners" distribution, the forums are mostly free from the mentioned hardcore idiots (they would never use such a horrible distribution that rips off everyone and spawns evil left and right). take your time to install it from scratch, preferably on a new computer (or dualboot) so you still have your old working system and can move over slowly step by step. at some point you will realize that you are no more booting into windows - and you will have learned enough to decide if you want to keep using this ubuntu stuff, or maybe try some mint, or redhat, or suse, or even debian or gentoo depending on your level of masochism :) (my personal choice is the latter - because more than any other distro it is about choice, and no self proclaimed messiahs entity decides what kind of software may run on my system)
Last edited by groepaz on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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pallas
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by pallas »

I'm not contradicting myself nor mixing up. I'm saying very simple things.
The definition of open source software is one, then if you have another I don't care.
I know pretty well that there are companies using OSS and not following the licenses, this is pretty common.
Anyway, I fear we are wasting our time on definitions and terms :-)
groepaz
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by groepaz »

I'm not contradicting myself nor mixing up.
all it takes to call that bullshit is going back a few posts. try reading them :)
The definition of open source software is one, then if you have another I don't care.
yeah, like stallmann and friends. who cares what other say, open source is free!!!!!!ELEVEN!
I know pretty well that there are companies using OSS and not following the licenses, this is pretty common.
nothing of what i said involves license breach at all. when microsoft releases their sources and puts them under a license that doesnt allow you to distribute modfied versions of it, then its their own right, and you or stallmann cant do anything about it. and you can do the Rumpelstiltskin dance as much as you want, at the end of they day they released their sources, making their software open source.
I'm just a Software Guy who has no Idea how the Hardware works. Don't listen to me.
pallas
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by pallas »

groepaz what you are saying is true, microsoft is calling opensource something, but the common OSS definition is another, just that.
Chill down :-)
I don't understand why you want to find bullshit everywhere. We are on a friendly forum and I've got nothing against you, I just use the term differently, so why? :-D
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Vic 2000
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Vic 2000 »

groepaz

The problem isn't Linux itself, the problem is lack of support (the market). I work a lot in the audio/video area and photo editing (and such stuff). I use industri standard appz because of both output format, support and plugins.

Linux is well supported in some areas but lack very much in others because of most companies don't care a bit about to release anything for Linux. The free apps you can download is for the most a far cry from the professional (expensive) apps found on both Windows and MAC.

The next problem is lack of drivers and software. When you buy a new smartphone, o new joypad, a new wireless modem, a camera or some other add on, you will instantly find both the software and the drivers for Windows, but nothing for Linux. Then you'll have to search the net for some alternative drivers and software that (for the most) is emergency software to be able to make the add-on work at all, if you find any software at all.

The next problem is the mentality in many Linux communities. Bad fanatic people supporting a good OS. Then i mean the typical hardcore Stallman followers. It's no idea to even think of to start a discussion with such people. Not to say that all Linux users are like the worst Stallman fanboys.

Linux is a good OS and i use it daily when i use my Sony smartphone. I'm a long time Firefox user as well. I have both been moderator and admin for Linux forums as well. So don't think that i don't like Linux. The only thing i don't like is the lack of support and Stallman fanboys. ;) :)
groepaz
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by groepaz »

microsoft is calling opensource something, but the common OSS definition is another, just that.
*everyone* except the GNU/FSF/OSI drones use "open source" like that. (actually when the discussion started i pasted that line from wikipedia into a couple irc channels, and nothing but laughter was the result) those hippies are trying to make everyone believe its the "common definition", and this osi nonsense only exists because someone got butthurt by stallmann. if you think things like this are not open source for some reason, try pulling out that stick from where it doesnt belong. it _is_ the "free" in "FOSS" that makes the whole difference, like it or not.
the next problem is lack of drivers and software. When you buy a new smartphone, o new joypad, a new wireless modem, a camera or some other add on, you will instantly find both the software and the drivers for Windows, but nothing for Linux.
i dont think its that bad - but sure, if you are planning to use linux, better check if the hardware is properly supported before you buy. thats also the only way to push vendors into supporting linux better.
The next problem is the mentality in many Linux communities. Bad fanatic people supporting a good OS. Then i mean the typical hardcore Stallman followers. It's no idea to even think of to start a discussion with such people.
as nicely demonstrated here =) however, its not any different for OSX fanboys either for that matter. or amiga people. or any other niche OS with no practical relevance whatsoever (GEOS?) =P
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Vic 2000
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Vic 2000 »

Agreed

I ended up in a forum for OS-X users, most of them acted like the worst Stallman fanboys. Then i ended up in a forum full of hardcore Amiga and C64 users. It was impossible to even try starting a sensible discussion with those people. Hardcore Atari ST users isn't much better.

Yet, in the swedish Ubuntu forum people even sended PM's threatening each other. There was mass bannings and a whole lot of chaos at times. Sometimes hardcore Debian users became members in the forum just to convert people to use the only right thing. At times the whole forum was one big circus. Some (mass banned) members started a rebel forum that i became member in too, speaking war strategies against the big Ubuntu forum. It was a bit like the light side against the dark side. :D

At times it was quite exciting. :D

Today the forum is much more relaxed then back then
http://ubuntu-se.org/phpBB3/

Well, what i'm trying to say is that, fanatics is never o good thing no matter what OS or computer they use.

In this aspect this forum has been surprisingly good. Vic-20 owners seems to be much more relaxed then most other retro people.

Sure i can run Linux too, but i still need Windows for much of my work. These days it's easy to run a dist from any USB memory. Perhaps i give Puppy another try. ;) :)
groepaz
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by groepaz »

Sure i can run Linux too, but i still need Windows for much of my work.
i am almost windows free now (still keep some XP box for work stuff, but dont really need it often) ... i am planning to move everything into VMs in the near future. i want to do some more audio production stuff as well, and sure as hell i wont bother using any of these half working hippie tools (i grew up with cubase on ST, and even that works better than all the crap on linux =P)
Vic-20 owners seems to be much more relaxed then most other retro people.
yeah, imho much of the reason for that is that back in the days, there wasnt much of a seperation between "sceners" and "normal users" - because pretty much everyone owning a vic-20 was a weirdo to begin with =) that changed a lot later with the raise of the scene in late 80s when homecomputers became a mass phenomenon.
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by English Invader »

Vic 2000 wrote:Sure i can run Linux too, but i still need Windows for much of my work. These days it's easy to run a dist from any USB memory. Perhaps i give Puppy another try. ;) :)
You should. USB Puppy is great for everyday web browsing (including YouTube).

I've been using Wary Puppy for most of this week and it's really made me think about what a resource hog XP is. I booted up XP for a little while yesterday and as soon as I was on there AVG was sucking up all the processor power for its updates. Puppy has brought my 10 year old laptops completely back to life and they're faster and more efficient than ever.
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Boray »

English Invader wrote: I've been using Wary Puppy for most of this week and it's really made me think about what a resource hog XP is.
I tried Puppy Linux on an old Pentium 4 laptop maybe a year ago. It sure started up faster but browsing was slower than on XP. Setting it up was not the easiest task either, for example, the link for choosing browser was broken and making programs localized to swedish was hard as well. Installing Flash player was hard too if I remember correctly.
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Vic 2000
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Vic 2000 »

groepaz

You're probably right.

English Invader

Power isn't really a problem using a multicore (quite fast pc). I liked Puppy Linux very much because it was very straightforward unlike many other Linux dist. Besides that Puppy Linux has a nice feel.
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by pallas »

groepaz wrote:*everyone* except the GNU/FSF/OSI drones use "open source" like that.
Really?
This page:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/openness/licenses.aspx

Is on Microsoft website and says Microsoft open source licenses are OSI approved.

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by rhurst »

groepaz wrote:for a beginner, i really think the biggest hurdle is the switch itself...
You nailed it, and limited mileage on it can easily lead to some of the rigid conclusions made here. Of course, if you have money and/or are technically-challenged and/or snobbery issues, then just buy an Apple, Google, Samsung, or Sony product. Those products exist for a reason. Moving to Linux is a trivial matter, and it is free as in beer and choice. There are reasons for that, too, backed by over 20-years development, billions of dollars, and it has majority presence on the Internet, both infrastructure and end points.

Microsoft has gotten on-board, because their products were not virtualization-friendly; and in order to survive in the enterprise-class market, they needed to re-engineer not only their software, but their business paradigm and presence. That's evidenced by their contributions made into the Linux kernel, among many other things. Cloud and SaaS are this decade's disruptive technology, and Microsoft cannot afford to make another short-sighted misstep.
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Vic 2000
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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Vic 2000 »

Besides the issues i mentioned earlier

The biggest drawback of them all is lack of software. So much free stuff on the net is Windows only. I can't run that emulator, because it's Windows only, i can't use that and that program, because it's Windows only.

Then one might think that, well, i look for a similar app for Linux. In many cases there isn't such app OR the app is a far cry from the one that i wanted. I have experienced that countless of times by now using both Mandriva, Ubuntu and Puppy Linux.

And that's because Windows has so much bigger user base. Most creators don't even bother to make a Linux or even OS-X version of their great app. Then it's the usual last way out, trying to run the Windows app in Wine. Sometimes it works, but for the most times not, and sometimes it works, but very bad.

It's a bit like VHS, Betamax and Video 2000 in the early 80's.

The video rental shop that i used to visit a lot when video was a hot new thing in Sweden early 80's contained aweful lots of rental movies for VHS, but just a small shelf containing a few movies for Betamax and Video 2000.

VHS wasn't the best video system, yet it was the most popular.

I feel the same way when i use Linux, just surf around the net for a while and you will soon discover that almost all software you find is for Windows. Then it doesn't matter if you use the best OS in the world, because it's programs that you run.

Belive me, some apps are so good that you could instantly switch OS for being able to use them. As i always say, you don't run an OS, you run programs.

I still like Linux, i can use it as my second OS, but i can't manage without Windows.
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