Tips on moving to Linux?

Other Computers and Game Systems

Moderator: Moderators

pallas
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:38 am

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by pallas »

groepaz wrote:
It's the same I'm saying: software which is opensource must be available as source for free.
What you build upon it may not, but that's a different story, and changes based on the type of license.
no and no. there is/was tons of opensource commercial unix software where source is only available to customers. there is even opensource windows stuff available from microsoft for paying customers. "open source" does in no way imply "free" at all.

c*base for the c64 for example was open source too - for paying customers of course =) or CCGMS.
from wikipedia:
"Open-source software (OSS) is computer software with its source code made available and licensed with a license in which the copyright holder provides the rights to study, change and distribute the software to anyone and for any purpose".

so what you are talking about is not open source.
User avatar
Vic 2000
Vic 20 Afficionado
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:17 am

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Vic 2000 »

You probably mean FOSS (Free and open source software)
pallas
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:38 am

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by pallas »

Vic 2000 wrote:You probably mean FOSS (Free and open source software)
No I mean OSS = open source software:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software
groepaz
Vic 20 Scientist
Posts: 1180
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:30 pm

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by groepaz »

only because its written in wikipedia it doesnt mean its not bullshit, really. (and if you read that article its quite clear its full of FOSS FUD - as always look at the "talk" page and you'll find some valueable info)

open source means that you may look at the source of the software, no more no less. it does NOT mean that you are allowed to distribute or even modify it. many open source licenses put various limitations on what you can do with the source for that matter.
I'm just a Software Guy who has no Idea how the Hardware works. Don't listen to me.
pallas
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:38 am

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by pallas »

groepaz wrote:only because its written in wikipedia it doesnt mean its not bullshit, really. (and if you read that article its quite clear its full of FOSS FUD - as always look at the "talk" page and you'll find some valueable info)

open source means that you may look at the source of the software, no more no less. it does NOT mean that you are allowed to distribute or even modify it. many open source licenses put various limitations on what you can do with the source for that matter.
I don't want to go on with this discussion as it's a lot offtopic.
You will get a clearer picture if you read about FOSS. You are probably confusing FREE in "free software" with "at no cost", which is not the case.
If you don't believe wikipedia, read the words of people who defined what free software and open source is, like Bruce Perens or Richard Stallman.
groepaz
Vic 20 Scientist
Posts: 1180
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:30 pm

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by groepaz »

You will get a clearer picture if you read about FOSS. You are probably confusing FREE in "free software" with "at no cost"
no, i am not. "open source" is not the same as FOSS. you are confusing "open source" with whatever those FOSS drones came up with. and no, i understand very well that "no cost" isnt a requirement at all.
If you don't believe wikipedia, read the words of people who defined what free software and open source is, like Bruce Perens or Richard Stallman.
those defined what FOSS is. open source software existed before those hippies came up with their twisted views and tried forcing them on everyone. (as said, tons of unix software from that era is/was open source - but available to paying customers only)

and if you dont believe that this first sentence in the wiki article is nonsense, try reading a couple of those open source licenses. even a lot of the licenses which qualify as FOSS put various restrictions on eg who you can give the modified sources too, for various reasons, which may be as stupid as "living in kuba".
I'm just a Software Guy who has no Idea how the Hardware works. Don't listen to me.
pallas
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:38 am

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by pallas »

groepaz wrote:
You will get a clearer picture if you read about FOSS. You are probably confusing FREE in "free software" with "at no cost"
no, i am not. "open source" is not the same as FOSS. you are confusing "open source" with whatever those FOSS drones came up with. and no, i understand very well that "no cost" isnt a requirement at all.
If you don't believe wikipedia, read the words of people who defined what free software and open source is, like Bruce Perens or Richard Stallman.
those defined what FOSS is. open source software existed before those hippies came up with their twisted views and tried forcing them on everyone. (as said, tons of unix software from that era is/was open source - but available to paying customers only)

and if you dont believe that this first sentence in the wiki article is nonsense, try reading a couple of those open source licenses. even a lot of the licenses which qualify as FOSS put various restrictions on eg who you can give the modified sources too, for various reasons, which may be as stupid as "living in kuba".
OK let's stop it. Let's say that:

You and probably some other people use a different open source definition than me and probably some other people.

That's weird 'cause I've been a linux network administrator, open source programmer and supporter for 20 years at least, but there is always something new to learn!!! ;-)
Boray
Musical Smurf
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 10:47 am

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Boray »

Almost nothing performs better on Linux. At least not on my computer:
http://user.tninet.se/~jad615g/ubuntu_vs_windows/
http://user.tninet.se/~jad615g/benchmarks/
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
User avatar
Vic 2000
Vic 20 Afficionado
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:17 am

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Vic 2000 »

That's often because of DirectX and better drivers in Windows. I noticed the same thing when i used Linux. Firefox was much faster in Windows for exemple. YouTube worked a lot better in Windows too, and so on.
groepaz
Vic 20 Scientist
Posts: 1180
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:30 pm

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by groepaz »

You and probably some other people use a different open source definition than me and probably some other people.
even mr. stallmann doesnt confuse "open source" and "free open source software" like you do. so yes, indeed. (actually you can read lengthy blurbs about how these two are different right on the fsf site)

and as to come back on topic: if you dont like this kind of stupid discussions, choose a non debian based distro =P
I'm just a Software Guy who has no Idea how the Hardware works. Don't listen to me.
User avatar
Vic 2000
Vic 20 Afficionado
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:17 am

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Vic 2000 »

Don't missunderstand me, i don't dislike Linux at all. The problem is support because money and real big companies rules the market. Most companies don't care a bit about Linux and most stuff is made for Windows.

It takes a big company or even several to change that. Just look at Google for exemple. Their Android OS is very successful and rules the market for smart phones. Take a look at Google Chrome in the browser market, Google rules that market too novadays, by far. Even Mozilla outperforms Microsoft in the browser market.

Both is open source.

Stallman and the other hippies isn't going to change anything while companies as Google and Mozilla changes the market a lot.
User avatar
pixel
Vic 20 Scientist
Posts: 1328
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:56 am
Website: http://hugbox.org/
Location: Berlin, Germany
Occupation: Pan–galactic shaman

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by pixel »

Here's my two cents: http://linuxmint.com
A man without talent or ambition is most easily pleased. Others set his path and he is content.
https://github.com/SvenMichaelKlose
pallas
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:38 am

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by pallas »

groepaz wrote:even mr. stallmann doesnt confuse "open source" and "free open source software" like you do. so yes, indeed. (actually you can read lengthy blurbs about how these two are different right on the fsf site)
I didn't say Open source software = free software, I just said OSS can be had at no cost for everyone, that's exactly what's on every site I can think of, like wikipedia, http://opensource.org/, http://opensource.com/resources/what-open-source, http://www.techterms.com/definition/opensource etc. etc. etc.
About lengthy blurbs on the fsf site, read this and many others:
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-sou ... point.html
which say exactly what I do.
rhurst
Omega Star Commander
Posts: 1369
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:12 pm
Website: https://robert.hurst-ri.us
Location: Providence, RI
Occupation: Tech & Innovation

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by rhurst »

Boray wrote:Almost nothing performs better on Linux. At least not on my computer:
http://user.tninet.se/~jad615g/ubuntu_vs_windows/
http://user.tninet.se/~jad615g/benchmarks/
:shock: Really? Stats? And published on 26 Sep 2010. You get a kudo for the disclaimer. ;)
Vic 2000 wrote:There's still nothing to tuch a top spec PC for gaming, not even PS4, but it ain't cheap
You make no point, ral-clan started with his issue that it's an older computer running XP. He's happy to run his XP apps with his specialized "add-ons", but is considering to make it a dual-boot Linux. Not a new issue for ordinary people, and you should already know that with your stated credentials, sir. He is asking for tips to do that, not what new machine/platform he should consider.

And the last thing any ordinary person in this situation should do is to throw a $200 OS on a machine worth less than $100. In steps the hermit crab OS: Linux. A plethora of distros await to make those rigs run longer and with supported software (read as security and bug fixes, important for those XP era machines); I suspect ral-clan intends on continuing his use of the Internet and probably use a browser? Maybe even with Java, Adobe, and Flash plug-ins, but with the choice of closed or open solutions? :roll:

And last time I checked, any modest PC can run ral-clan's classic library using emulators @ 100%, a modern Office and Internet suite, at no cost. You can see that for yourself with my 6-year old project: cross-developed on Linux for use with Linux or Windows. I published an older Puppy Linux LIVE boot CD-ROM 8-years ago for even more modest hardware. Yes, both older than Boray's stats. ;)
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
https://robert.hurst-ri.us/rob/retrocomputing
User avatar
Vic 2000
Vic 20 Afficionado
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:17 am

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?

Post by Vic 2000 »

Robert.

I just answered this..
That's why there is a better experience, platform, and market called a gaming console for those bigger developers.
Or buying a new top spec gaming PC, you don't get better gaming experience even if it's going to cost a lot more then a console.

Regarding slower Linux, it's mostly lack of descent drivers and DirextX that makes most of the difference. I also noticed that common taskt in Windows mostly was faster then in Linux, at least using a decent new computer. Not even Firefox was performing as fast at it does in Windows.

For the most, you don't get any orginal drivers for Linux.
Last edited by Vic 2000 on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply