PET keys?

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Kakemoms
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PET keys?

Postby Kakemoms » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:48 am

I was searching eBay for a NTSC machine and just bought this.

It looks like the keys are wider, but I am not sure wether its an original Vic-20 with PET keyboard or not. Anyone knows how to check that?

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fuzzybad
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Re: PET keys?

Postby fuzzybad » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:33 am

Hard to tell for sure from that picture, but it appears to be a 'PET keys' model. What's the serial #? Does it work?

I have one of these too, here's a pic for comparison.

vic 20 - petkeys.jpg


vic 20 serial - petkeys.jpg

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tonyrocks
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Re: PET keys?

Postby tonyrocks » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:41 am

hmmm...looks like first-gen Vic for North America. Mine as a kid had that same gold vic label, not sure about the keys though.

This is me...don't laugh, but I can't zoom in and enhance the vic keyboard in this image, but they do kinda look bigger.

Image

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orion70
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Re: PET keys?

Postby orion70 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:10 pm

:) We were cool computer guys back then, weren't we?

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tonyrocks
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Re: PET keys?

Postby tonyrocks » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:58 pm

Awe yeah, you know it! hehe

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Kakemoms
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Re: PET keys?

Postby Kakemoms » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:44 pm

Well, I finally got it and it is certainly a PET keyboard. Strange thing is that it was made in Japan. Its label is silver not golden.

Power supply is 9V AC and with a waiver on the radio emission. So my guess its an early machine since they had problems with the FCC requirements. But I though they were not allowed to sell them before they got an FCC license?

Edit: I found a similar one here: http://www.vic20.de/html/vic20_usa_1.html
Haven´t opened up mine yet (it will need to wait until I get back to Norway from the US).
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Kakemoms
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Re: PET keys?

Postby Kakemoms » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:19 pm

I also found this from tech-insider.org:
-----------------------------------------------

Commodore Intl Gets FCC Okay to Manufacture New Computer

Dow Jones News Service

August 5, 1981

NY - IRVING GOULD CHAIRMAN OF COMMODORE INTERNATIONAL LTD SAID COMMODORE HAD BEEN NOTIFIED BY THE FCC THAT ITS VIC-20 PERSONAL COMPUTER MEETS THE RADIATION EMISSION REQUIREMENTS OF PART 15 OF THE FCC RULE FOR CLASS B PERSONAL COMPUTERS AND IS NOW CERTIFIED.

ACCORDING TO GOULD 'THIS FCC CERTIFICATION MEANS THAT THE VIC-20 IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR MANUFACTURE AND SALE IN THE U.S. WHERE PREVIOUSLY THE VIC-20 WAS ONLY BEING SOLD IN LIMITED QUANTITIES IN THE U S PURSUANT TO AN FCC WAIVER.'

GOULD FURTHER NOTED THAT 'NOW THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED FCC CERTIFICATION FOR THE VIC-20 WHERE UP UNTIL NOW WE HAD ONLY BEEN MANUFACTURING IT AT THE RATE OF APPROXIMATELY 8 000 UNITS MONTHLY IN JAPAN THIS PRODUCTION RATE WILL BE INCREASED TO AT LEAST 20 000 UNITS MONTHLY WITHIN 60 DAYS THE ADDED PRODUCTION COMING FROM OUR MANUFACTURING FACILITIES IN SANTA CLARA CALIF. AND BRAUNSCHWEIG WEST GERMANY.'

GOULD SAID HE EXPECTED THE VIC-20 PRODUCTION RATE TO EXCEED 20 000 UNITS PER MONTH.

Copyright (c) 1981, Dow Jones & Co., Inc.

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Re: PET keys?

Postby ral-clan » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:01 am

I think these PET key VIC-20s with the FCC warning were among the first batch(es) in sold in North America. I think all PET key VIC-20s were manufactured in Japan (from what I've seen)...I have one like this with the FCC warning label.
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Re: PET keys?

Postby fuzzybad » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:57 pm

This is quite interesting, my VIC has a much lower serial #, but the badge says Made in USA and it doesn't have the FCC notice sticker.

Perhaps each Commodore manufacturing center used their own sequence of serial numbers, so that (for example) 500,000 Japan comes before 65,000 USA?

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Kakemoms
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Re: PET keys?

Postby Kakemoms » Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:45 pm

Yea, it looks like all japanese manufactured vic-20 starts with "5":
http://www.vic20.de/Nummern.pdf

My link in the previous post also show that number 505599 was produced in 4-81, so it looks like I have one from early 1981.

It also sounds like Goulds statement of 8000 per month was a slight modification of the truth.

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Re: PET keys?

Postby Kakemoms » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:12 am

I finally got it home to Norway and my early Vic-20 works nicely on my 1084, although the NTSC picture is a little weak in colors and has some wavy edge (I barely notice it). :P The keyboard isn't very responsive though, so I have to find out if its purely a mechanical problem or something else.

Once I opened it up I could see that it was made 3/81, quite early! Wonder who were allowed to buy one at that time..
Edit: I found this prereview in Compute! Issue 011 from April 1981. Apparently only a selected few got to buy these early machines (or they were stocking up).

The soldering is a really poor job with some chips barely hanging to the PCB. The main chips are all socketed and marked "MOS". The PCB is marked as 09357 (sticker) with PN0 10010016 Rev.E etched into it. Wonder why its higher than the 5xxxxx serial, maybe they just continued on the Vic-1001 PCB numbers?

Some early Vic stats I have found:
    Serial 101516, Pcb 1558, manufactured 1980, Made in Japan, PET keyboard, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, a Vic-1001 with Rev C PCB
    Serial 504543, Pcb 9357, manufactured 3/81, Made in Japan, PET keyboard, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, FCC Waiver (the one shown here)
    Serial 50xxxx, Pcb 13254, manufactured 4/81, Made in Japan, PET keyboard, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, FCC Waiver (vecchiocomputer.com)
    Serial 505599, Pcb 13581, manufactured 4/81, Made in Japan, PET keyboard, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, Probably FCC Waiver (vic20.de)
    Serial 50xxxx, Pcb N.A. , manufactured before 7/81, Made in Japan, PET keyboard, 2-pin 9V EU, PAL , Same heatsink as 505599 (vic20.de)
    Serial 515986, Pcb N.A. , manufactured 7/81, Made in Japan, PET keyboard, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, Larger internal heatsink version (vic20.de)

Now, if the Pcb numbering is somewhat sequential, one can see that there were approximately 5000 units of Vic-1001 made in 1980 before they started making Vic-20 for the USA in 1981. There is also a "jump" in PCB numbering between serial 504543 and 505599 suggesting either a small run with PAL machines (other or no serials) or another run of Vic-1001 machines in that period.
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Re: PET keys?

Postby eslapion » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:38 pm

Kakemoms wrote:I was searching eBay for a NTSC machine and just bought this.

It looks like the keys are wider, but I am not sure wether its an original Vic-20 with PET keyboard or not. Anyone knows how to check that?

The font on the SHIFT key confirms this is a PET style keyboard.

If you remove the keyboard from the computer, there will be hidden holes on the topside of the keyboard frame covered with electrical tape.
See close to the function keys here:
http://www.nightfallcrew.com/wp-content ... G_0256.jpg

ral-clan wrote: I think all PET key VIC-20s were manufactured in Japan

Wrong, mine was made in USA. The difference inside is obvious. Japan made VIC-20s have the VIAs and many other chips oriented left to right. (like kakemons pic)

In the US made ones, the same chips are oriented back-front.
Like this:
http://www.mainbyte.com/vic20/vic20_mb.jpg

@kakemons
My own VIC-20 is made in the US and the serial number is V007829 so I gues this makes it a very early machine. The 6560 inside is dated 2281 that's in early summer 1981!!
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Kakemoms
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Re: PET keys?

Postby Kakemoms » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:59 am

eslapion wrote:@kakemons
My own VIC-20 is made in the US and the serial number is V007829 so I gues this makes it a very early machine. The 6560 inside is dated 2281 that's in early summer 1981!!


Interesting! I wonder wheter they started making them in the US before August 1981 (and stocking up).

I also had another look inside my early machine and the 6502 is dated 1180, the 6560-101 is dated 4480 and both 6522 are dated 4480.

Some chips are also dated in 81 with one 901486-06 dated 1781 (the other is 901486-01 dated 5280), the 901480-03 dated 0981.

There are also some smaller chips with MOS marking named 65246 and dated 0681 (no idea what these are).

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Re: PET keys?

Postby RobertBe » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:48 pm

eslapion wrote:My own VIC-20 is made in the US and the serial number is V007829 so I gues this makes it a very early machine. The 6560 inside is dated 2281 that's in early summer 1981!!

I'm beginning the restoration of a PET-keyed VIC-20 made in Japan with the serial number of 515188. The 6560 says 4780, but what really gives away the date of the machine is a silver sticker on the inner metal cage that says, "PRODUCED IN 7/81".

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Kakemoms
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Re: PET keys?

Postby Kakemoms » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:37 am

Ok I updated the list a little. If you have more info, please let me know. The Vic20.de pages also list BASIC, KERNAL and CHAR dates which would be nice to have.

Code: Select all

Serial  101516, Pcb 1558,  manuf 1980, 6560-date:xxxx, Made in Japan, PET, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, a Vic-1001 with Rev C PCB
Serial  504543, Pcb 9357,  manuf 3/81, 6560-date:4480, Made in Japan, PET, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, FCC Waiver (kakemoms)
Serial  5052xx, Pcb 13254, manuf 4/81, 6560-date:xxxx, Made in Japan, PET, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, FCC Waiver (oldcomputr.com)
Serial  505599, Pcb 13581, manuf 4/81, 6560-date:4680, Made in Japan, PET, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, (FCC Waiver) (vic20.de)
Serial  50xxxx, Pcb N.A. , manuf ?/81, 6560-date:xxxx, Made in Japan, PET, 2-p 9V EU, PAL , Small heatsink, Metal cardboard (vic20.de)
Serial  513738, Pcb N.A. , manuf ?/81, 6560-date:xxxx, Made in Japan, PET, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, FCC Waiver, Vic1020 & Numeric keypad (rmelick)
Serial  515188, Pcb N.A. , manuf 7/81, 6560-date:4780, Made in Japan, PET, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, (RobertBe)
Serial  515986, Pcb N.A. , manuf 7/81, 6560-date:xxxx, Made in Japan, PET, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, Larger heatsink (vic20.de)
Serial V007829, Pcb N.A. , manuf 1981, 6560-date:2281, Made in USA  , PET, 2-pin 9V, NTSC, USA PCB (eslapion)


Note that PCB number is often beneath the heatsink if you have a large heatsink version.


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