Original VIC-20 joytsticks - worth preserving?

History and Preservation Issues

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eslapion
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Original VIC-20 joytsticks - worth preserving?

Post by eslapion »

I recently did a very nice job at cleaning my Atari trackball as well as restoring the fire buttons which were mostly dead. I took the time and care to use silver solder to make a good fix which will last a very long time and replaced the white rubber feet with new ones just like the originals.

Since this restoration job looked real nice and provided me with a "like new" operating trackball, I then went on to doing the same with my Wico trackball which I prefer because it is sturdier. It is then I discorevered the Wico trackball draws a whopping 175mA when operating (see thread on Lemon64 related to stelladaptor problems). In this case I also added a left handed fire button.

Satisfied with these 2 restorations, I thought I would do the same to my two VIC-20 original sticks (the ones with the 3 sided black shaft). What an unpleasant surprise when opening the case. The contact pads for the fire button and directions were not just dirty, they had cracked contact plates, the structural stick inside had cracked at the base where it pressed on all 4 directions pads. This is true for both sticks which had different original owners BTW.

The original material used was so cheap and is now in such bad condition that a lot of changes to the insides would be necessary to get them both well working and durable. Considering the effort and money required, I am asking you all, in your opinion, are they worth the archeological value to justify the investment?

Personally, they are truly not my favorite joysticks. My favorites are the Wicos and the Coleco Gemini joysticks and all of these are tough and easy to internally alter to provide them with a very long operational life.
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akator
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Re: Original VIC-20 joytsticks - worth preserving?

Post by akator »

Agreed that the Commodore joysticks aren't particularly playable. I have a pair that still work, they're just not ergonomic. Of course, that was common back then with many controllers, both OEM and third party.

Personally, my Commodore joysticks are for display because they are pretty next to my VIC and peripherals. Upgrades won't make them more comfortable and ergonomic, no matter how much more reliable the internals become.
eslapion wrote:The original material used was so cheap and is now in such bad condition that a lot of changes to the insides would be necessary to get them both well working and durable. Considering the effort and money required, I am asking you all, in your opinion, are they worth the archeological value to justify the investment?
Museums typically prefer preservation. If new parts are used, they're supposed to be equivalent. That means the crappy internals would be replaced with new, equally crappy internals exactly like the originals. That way future generations understand the original qualities of the object, good or bad.

So from that "archeological" perspective, don't try to upgrade them.
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ral-clan
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Re: Original VIC-20 joytsticks - worth preserving?

Post by ral-clan »

I agree that from a historic standpoint, if preservation for future knowledge / example is the goal, then keeping the original parts, even if non-functioning is the priority. This is the way museums approach artefacts (I work in the museum field). If a piece needs to be restored to working condition in a museum setting (i.e. at a living history site that gives demonstrations) then as already mentioned, new old stock equivalent parts, or barring that, modern reproduction parts using the same materials are preferred. The old, original broken parts would then be kept instead of discarded.

So if you are thinking of using modern parts to get your joystick working again, just be aware that this would be for personal enjoyment only. In terms of its value as an historic artefact, it would be considered a reduction in its value (both monetarily and as a learning object).

I should mention that I love the look of the triangular shaft joystick. It's unique and cool looking. The true original VIC-20 joystick, however, is the one that looks like a white version of the Atari 2600 joystick (exact same moulds minus Atari logo). These *are* much rarer than even the triangular joystick and should be preserved.

http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/wiki ... e=Joystick
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RobertBe
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Re: Original VIC-20 joytsticks - worth preserving?

Post by RobertBe »

eslapion wrote:Satisfied with these 2 restorations, I thought I would do the same to my two VIC-20 original sticks (the ones with the 3 sided black shaft). What an unpleasant surprise when opening the case. The contact pads for the fire button and directions were not just dirty, they had cracked contact plates, the structural stick inside had cracked at the base where it pressed on all 4 directions pads. This is true for both sticks which had different original owners BTW.

The original material used was so cheap and is now in such bad condition that a lot of changes to the insides would be necessary to get them both well working and durable. Considering the effort and money required, I am asking you all, in your opinion, are they worth the archeological value to justify the investment?
I would be very interested in seeing how you go about repairing such joysticks, since I have one myself. Actually, I am not against upgrading such a joystick to make it more durable and more usable. FCUG member Louis M. has done a couple of presentations (one at CommVEx) showing how he upgrades an original Atari joystick with better parts to increase its longevity. Making a good joystick better... I'm all for that.

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beamrider
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Re: Original VIC-20 joytsticks - worth preserving?

Post by beamrider »

I've seen them occasionally on EBay as new-old stock in sealed boxes so that would be the easiest choice.
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MarkTheMorose
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Re: Original VIC-20 joytsticks - worth preserving?

Post by MarkTheMorose »

ral-clan wrote:The true original VIC-20 joystick, however, is the one that looks like a white version of the Atari 2600 joystick (exact same moulds minus Atari logo). These *are* much rarer than even the triangular joystick and should be preserved.
I have a white joystick that may be a clone of the Commodore clone of the Atari 2600 joystick! Originally, I thought it was a Commodore stick, but after I put a video on YouTube a couple of years ago, a comment makes me think it's actually a clone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeGnNNj8Quw
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Re: Original VIC-20 joytsticks - worth preserving?

Post by r.cade »

Yes, the originals have "C= Commodore" in the molding where yours says "Joystick".

Maybe they kept making them and just removed their name so they could keep selling them?

EDIT: I was going through my boxes of joysticks and found one- but it's different to both the Commodore-molded one, and the clone from that page. Mine has a shiny metallic sticker that says "Joy Stick". Also, you can't tell from the photo, but the plastic is brown, not black.

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eslapion
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Re: Original VIC-20 joytsticks - worth preserving?

Post by eslapion »

@r.cade:
I have had a few of these "atari clones" Commodore stick but they quickly vanished from the market back around 1982.

The "original" Commodore sticks here in Canada sold with the "Viccessories" kits were smaller and had a 3 sided black stick. These are the ones I have.
Image

@RobertBe:
Both atari devices and Commodore sticks internally use flexible metal plates held on top of a conductive PCB with a transparent adhesive.

My method is usually to completely remove the transparent adhesive then completely cover the PCB traces with silver based (lead free) solder to prevent oxidation. Then I solder only one of the 3 "legs" of the metal plate to set it permanently in place but allowing it to flex exactly as it did before.
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