Low end computers 1985

[Boray]

I had this one in my bookmarks. Has anyone else posted it here? Or did I find it directly on YouTube? Anyway, it was interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9boeHRUeMPA

[orion70]

Excellent! I like the way the guys look - it's so... 80ish .
And Tramiel after switching to Atari... The JACK-IN-TOSH! And the 128... Really interesting. Too bad we didn't have such TV shows in Italy.

[gklinger]

I was struck most by the verbiage. Everyone was trying to hard to sound intelligent and professional that they ended up speaking largely in gobbledygook. As much as I loved the 80's, I cringe when I think about how phony and superficial things were.

P.S. Is it just me or did anyone else's racism detector go off when Tramiel started talking about the Japanese (aka "those people")?

[rhurst]

... how phony and superficial things were.

Agreed, but any degree of that was expected around 'low end' computers. At least the shit that was produced then was value priced. Think about the extra zero the 'mid-range' computer consumers paid for essentially the same shit? I would hope that the level of technical know-how then pales compare to the average consumer now, so history won't repeat itself.

IMO, the verbiage was poor because the 'captive market' for microcomputers was still coalescing and predictions then were based on hunches and guesses (Jack's crystal ball). The market needed something to capture that other 85% spoken about outside of the video gamers (who ruled the day). I found the commentary and predictions were even-handed enough, for my palette and for that time.

... did anyone else's racism detector go off

Of course it did, but that was definitely the attitude -- from all of TV and the other media channels -- of the time. Especially during the Reagan years with the tough economic times because of Japanese automobile imports. Fierce competition, and that was Jack's point -- not his language -- and that was as good as it gets.

[gklinger]

IMO, the verbiage was poor because the 'captive market' for microcomputers was still coalescing and predictions then were based on hunches and guesses (Jack's crystal ball).

I think that perhaps you've misunderstood me. The reason the verbiage was so poor was that there was a camera in front of them and they were trying to sound erudite. Another factor is that none of them had any formal business training and were overcompensating with what they thought was business talk. The result was that they came off sounding like gibbering idiots.

Of course it did, but that was definitely the attitude -- from all of TV and the other media channels -- of the time.

I detected something beyond the standard beat the Japanese rhetoric of the era. He was saying "those people" but I got the feeling he wanted to say, 'those damn Japs'. It almost sounded personal. Tramiel did serve in the US armed forces but did so after WWII so it couldn't be residual negativity left over from that conflict. Whatever the cause, I got the distinct impression that his feelings about the Japanese ran deep and dark.

[rhurst]

he wanted to say, 'those damn Japs'.

I agree with you there, there was a hint of contempt in his voice. And I can only laugh at that... like laughing at an Archie Bunker.

I read On the Edge, and I thought it was insightful on how much Tramiel studied and learned from the Japanese, because he knew that was his real competition in the market space. It clearly wasn't (blow) Jobs, (geek) Gates, Trash-80, et al. So to your point, I was curious where the source of disdain (if any) was coming from, too. Perhaps he was just in a bitter state having just been cut loose (by Irving Gould?) and facing that music publicly made him come off with contempt.

[Jeff-20]

What kind of accent does Jack have? I can't figure it out.
When I redesign the website, i should add a video page with links to all the videos like this. Anyone want to help compile them... the tags on youtube are not consistent.

[gklinger]

What kind of accent does Jack have?

It's a bit of a hodge-podge. He was born in Poland but it sure isn't a pure Polish accent.

[RobertBe]

When I redesign the website, i should add a video page with links to all the videos like this. Anyone want to help compile them...

Many of the videos are located at

http://www.commodore.ca/gallery/video/video.htm

An additional video is at

http://blip.tv/file/792025

Jack is also at the Computer History Museum's Impact of the Commodore 64 video, downloadable at

http://archive.computerhistory.org/lect ... EDITED.wmv

I will see if the other videos posted by other news organizations are still up.

Happy New Year!
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
http://www.sccaners.org

[orion70]

What kind of accent does Jack have?

It's a bit of a hodge-podge. He was born in Poland but it sure isn't a pure Polish accent.

From Wiki:

Tramiel was born as Idek Trzmiel in Łódź, Poland.

After the Nazi invasion in 1939 his family was transported to the Jewish ghetto in Łódź, where he worked in a garment factory. When the ghettos were liquidated his family was sent to the Auschwitz concentration camp. He was examined by Dr. Mengele and selected for a work party, after which he and his father were sent to the labor camp Ahlem near Hanover, while his mother remained at Auschwitz. Like many other inmates, his father was reported to have died of Typhus in the work camp; however, Tramiel believes he was killed by an injection of gasoline. Tramiel was rescued from the labor camp in April 1945 by the 84th Infantry Division.

In November 1947, Tramiel emigrated to the United States. He soon joined the army, where he learned how to repair office equipment, including typewriters.

I think he should deserve more respect. His feelings towards the Japanese may have been negative, but I think it was only business: with such a personal history, one can be all but racist.

[gklinger]

I think he should deserve more respect.

His feelings towards the Japanese may have been negative, but I think it was only business: with such a personal history, one can be all but racist.

My point is that the words he chose, his tone and the look on his face suggests a strong dislike and that it is personal. As for his history, what has that got to do with anything? Members of my family survived the holocaust without becoming racists and their experiences made them acutely aware of how dangerous racism can be.

[saehn]

His feelings towards the Japanese may have been negative, but I think it was only business: with such a personal history, one can be all but racist.

My point is that the words he chose, his tone and the look on his face suggests a strong dislike and that it is personal. As for his history, what has that got to do with anything? Members of my family survived the holocaust without becoming racists and their experiences made them acutely aware of how dangerous racism can be.

<rant>This isn't directed towards you, Golan, rather towards the subject being discussed:

There is no Japanese race, just as there is no Jewish race, etc. The concept of biological "race" is ambiguous enough as it is, but for clarity's sake I think that we shouldn't equivocate the term with "ethnicity" or "cultural background", both of which are not necessarily related to genetics. Sorry, carry on!</rant>

[orion70]

I think he should deserve more respect.

His feelings towards the Japanese may have been negative, but I think it was only business: with such a personal history, one can be all but racist.

My point is that the words he chose, his tone and the look on his face suggests a strong dislike and that it is personal. As for his history, what has that got to do with anything? Members of my family survived the holocaust without becoming racists and their experiences made them acutely aware of how dangerous racism can be.

We're saying the same things. My point is, even if his tone suggests so, he can't be racist with such a personal history. Sorry you misunderstood my words .

And yes Saehn, we all agree we're all part of the same race, which is the Human Race. Here the term "race" is intended in the improper sense of "ethnic group".

[carlsson]

Why can't Jack Tramiel both admire, envy and hate the Japanese people all at once? To me, those three feelings are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Think about it: Commodore, like many other companies produced calculators in the early 1970's until the Japanese competitors managed to produce far cheaper and possible even better items, putting them out of business, forcing Commodore into producing computers. That change of business may have made Tramiel quite upset at first, even if he per se would not go out and kill any innocent Japanese people.

I have also read he has great respect for how the Japanese make business, their often razor sharp methods, that he studied them in order to improve his own business. Thus the admiration and possible envy.

By the way, as an off-topic note I read the other day that only 1 out of 20 cars sold in Japan is imported. It makes me wonder about the volumes of the VIC-1001. Although it was 30 years ago and a different kind of product, I would expect the rather protectionistic Japanese to import relatively as few Western computers as they today import cars.

[rhurst]

I admire, envy and hate Jack all at once -- so turnabout is fair play in my book.