Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

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joshuadenmark
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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby joshuadenmark » Wed May 04, 2016 10:58 am

Impressive spaghetti construction :D
Kind regards, Peter.
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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby joshuadenmark » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:47 pm

MCes wrote:Now "WonderVIC" is under development: it's a "SpaghettiVIC"


Any Wonder progress 8) ?
Kind regards, Peter.
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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby MCes » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:38 pm

It's born!!!

WonderVIC.JPG


WonderDoom.JPG
Doom with empty cartridge slot!!!


Code: Select all

 continuous pressing of RESTORE will generate a HW RESET,
 during HW RESET function keys could select RAM expansion
  _____________________________________________________
 |          | 3k RAM |  16k   |  8k  |   2K   |   8k   |
 | F5 F3 F1 | 1+2+3  | BLK1+2 | BLK3 | I/O2+3 |  BLK5  |
 |__________|________|________|______|________|________|
 | -- -- -- |   --   |   --   |  --  |   --   |   --   |
 | -- -- ** |   **   |   **   |  --  |   --   |   --   |
 | -- ** -- |   **   |   --   |  --  |   --   |   --   |
 | -- ** ** |   **   |   **   |  **  |   --   |   --   |
 | ** -- -- |   **   |   **   |  **  |   --   |   **   |
 | ** -- ** |   **   |   **   |  **  |   --   | R.ONLY |
 | ** ** -- |   **   |   **   |  **  |   **   |   **   |
 | ** ** ** |   **   |   **   |  **  |   **   | R.ONLY |
 |__________|________|________|______|________|________|

      (R.ONLY = Read only: ROM emulation)
     
 F7= second kernal (JDos + cartridge autostart disabled)
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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby Barney » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:50 am

Out of curiosity, what is your cost to have a board modded like this? I'm definitely interested.

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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby Mike » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:39 am

MCes, I just found out you did an upgrade to despaghettify this newest setup because of Barney's post. :lol:

Do you have any ambitions to include my VFLI mod in the next iteration? Both the internal 3K RAM expansion (which is visible for the VIC chip), and the colour RAM expansion (from 1Kx4 to 16Kx4) could be made switchable, for those concerned about 100%+ compatibility. *)

Cheers,

Michael


*) the current method of holding the colour RAM bank number in a VIA register interfers with RS232 operation, which just has become more relevant in the later time with the new WiModem hardware and programming efforts... alternatively, the colour RAM bank number could be held in a new I/O register positioned somewhere in I/O 0, with extra decoding, but that'd also require extra h/w and a change in the display routine for the VFLI graphics mode. Also, the original VFLI mod has been honoured as is in the current VICE releases, so the most sensible option actually might be making it completely switchable.

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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby eslapion » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:15 am

eslapion wrote:PAL VIC-20cr with extra integrated 3k/16k RAM received!

Works perfectly well too.

Thank you MCes.

Finally will be able to play Frogger the proper way, as well as Robotic Liberation.

I am happy with the VIC-20 I bought from you MCes but how do I install JiffyDOS ?
No one can do everything. Everyone can do something.

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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby MCes » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:12 am

Barney wrote:Out of curiosity, what is your cost to have a board modded like this? I'm definitely interested.

Hi Barney,
I have to determine the cost:
1) the unmodified motherboard
2) work time + material for project development
3) work time + material for modify this motherboard

Mike wrote:Do you have any ambitions to include my VFLI mod in the next iteration? Both the internal 3K RAM expansion (which is visible for the VIC chip), and the colour RAM expansion (from 1Kx4 to 16Kx4) could be made switchable, for those concerned about 100%+ compatibility. *)

Hi Mike,
I studied a little bit the situation,
I imagined a daughter board that will fit the Char. ROM socket.
On daughter board:
-the Char. ROM,
- 2x32K Ram CHIP (one is used only for 16K)
- a GAL22V10 (glue-logic)
- a register 74LS273.

Daughter board need some extra signal:
- VD8,9,10,11
- Ca6,13,14,15
- /IO0
- Fase1
- G2B (to pin 5 of UC4 and UC5)
- Vr/w
- /RST
- /CScolor (from pin4 of UC2, pin8 of UE1 cutted to Vcc)

The register LS273:
it's an "only writeble" "VIA4" ($914x), and on RESET it will be "$00".
LS273 Bit0,1,2,3 are for paging the Color Ram (RAM will be 8bit deep, it can help other programs to hide/store datas/SW).
Bit4: enable/disable the internal +3k Ram (VIC recognizable)
Bit5: enable 16K RAM in BLK1+2
Bit6: enable 8K RAM in BLK3
Bit7: enable 8K RAM in BLK5 (and switch off +3K RAM)

So, this version could offer:
- 16x 1K (8bit deep) pages on color space
- a flexible internal RAM expansion unit
- VIC20 VIAs not used
- HW work: (if necessary desolder CHAR. ROM), cut only 3 pins on motherboard chips

eslapion wrote:I am happy with the VIC-20 I bought from you MCes but how do I install JiffyDOS ?

Inside ROM could be the jiffydos (for future improvements....),
I don't remember well, is the EPROM a 27(C)256?
If "yes" you can try to desolder the MSB of EPROM address for use it as selector, it will result in "no change" or in "change" (Jiffydos?)
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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby Mike » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:39 pm

MCes wrote:The register LS273:
it's an "only writeble" "VIA4" ($914x), and on RESET it will be "$00".
LS273 Bit0,1,2,3 are for paging the Color Ram (RAM will be 8bit deep, it can help other programs to hide/store datas/SW).
Bit4: enable/disable the internal +3k Ram (VIC recognizable)
Bit5: enable 16K RAM in BLK1+2
Bit6: enable 8K RAM in BLK3
Bit7: enable 8K RAM in BLK5 (and switch off +3K RAM)

That is not going to work with the current display routine for VFLI images.

The colour RAM bank register needs to be readable, as the display routine deploys four I/O register writes within a very tight time frame on each HSync. The registers A, X and Y are pre-loaded with the new values and stored with three consecutive STx instructions, and the first write before those three is done with an INC instruction each raster to increment the colour bank.

Even with a writable register, there needs to be a guard bit in bit 4 (value 16) which must be fixed at 0, so the INC instruction doesn't affect bits 5..7 - with my mod, bits 4..7 of the VIA#1 port B are set to input so this doesn't matter here.

...

OTOH, I'd consider it a real win if you'd just offer to perform the VFLI mod for others as is. I'd be fine with that.

The display isn't anyway going to work alongside RS232 transmissions, as the routine blocks the CPU for ~80% of each frame and requires cycle exact timing. Both are things which don't go along with RS232 operation.

So people could still have one VIC-20 for RS232, and the other one for a colourful display (<- but that's not the only thing doable with the mod. :))

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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby MCes » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:11 pm

Mike wrote:That is not going to work with the current display routine for VFLI images


Ok,
but you are modifying a VIC 20 hardware.....
What do you think about a color bank register that it will be auto-increased each raster line by hardware ?
During the "CPU-time" the register is static and it point the proper color page for CPU work, but during "VIC-time" the page register will be increased each raster line in according with VFLI procedure.
A single bit in a register could stop the "HW auto increasing" and copy inside him the value of CPU-TIME page register (to switch off the VFLI and display the normal screen)

It will save a lot of CPU-time! (and VIA remain free of work...)
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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby Mike » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:42 pm

MCes wrote:What do you think about a color bank register that it will be auto-increased each raster line by hardware?

It is not only sufficient to change the colour RAM bank, also 3 VIC registers must be changed on each raster.

I already had a slightly more radical approach in mind, allowing for the display of a VFLI image with essentially 0% overhead.

See here: http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4882&start=92

However, at that time the VFLI mod as given was the most simple method (from my judgement) to put those images onto display, and I might have followed through to more elaborated versions, if only ... :(

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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby MCes » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:51 am

Mike wrote:I already had a slightly more radical approach in mind, allowing for the display of a VFLI image with essentially 0% overhead.

I think that your "0% CPU" will be a too radical modify, it's better to put a C64 VICII on external cartridge.......
Generate an ALT-time for CPU will destroy the time linearity of a RS232 routine.... no goal!
It could be possible a doughter board to fit sochets of UD8, UE8, UF8, to perform HW dinamic refresh of VIC registers during CPU-time without uP-freeze, but the problem will be the VIAs that have adress on CPU and DATA lines on VIC bus.... they will become unusable (for RS232, keyboard scan, etc...).

Mike wrote:So people could still have one VIC-20 for RS232, and the other one for a colourful display (<- but that's not the only thing doable with the mod. :))

If the problem is that a VIC 20 modified VLFI cannot be used (for example) for RS232 communications because this kind of SW have to use user-port (and this become a switch of color bank with problem to normal display of a common VIC20 default screen..),
then it's possible create a flag that forcing the color memory page on default page ignoring the 4 bit from user port: you can (dinamically) decide if display VLFI OR come back at default VIC20 HW (for RS232 and so on...).

So not 2 VIC20 for 2 work, but 1 VIC20 for 2 work (but not in the same time...)
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Re: Super VIC20 motherboard! (PAL) MOBO

Postby MCes » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:50 pm

I think that it's time to sell the modified Motherboard "WonderVIC".

Price for it is 75€+shipment.


http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8417
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