Behr-Bonz 2015

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lucifershalo
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Re: Behr-Bonz 2015

Postby lucifershalo » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:13 am

eslapion wrote:
lance.ewing wrote:Glad it was still available. Payment sent.

Just a few hours after receiving your Payment, a Belgian guy who contacted me back in October suddenly decided he was ready to pay... too bad for him.


I contacted you first Nov 26, not in October
get your facts right ;)

eslapion
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Re: Behr-Bonz 2015

Postby eslapion » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:58 am

lucifershalo wrote:
eslapion wrote:
lance.ewing wrote:Glad it was still available. Payment sent.

Just a few hours after receiving your Payment, a Belgian guy who contacted me back in October suddenly decided he was ready to pay... too bad for him.


I contacted you first Nov 26, not in October
get your facts right ;)


At 07:31 AM 10/21/2016, you wrote:
Hello
I would Like to order one for Belgium,

Pal

thanks,
Laurent

This says Oct.21st... not that I feel there is any point arguing about such things but I'm a very 'factual' kind of guy.
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Re: Behr-Bonz 2015

Postby plgDavid » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:40 am

eslapion wrote:Image
The HASL connector is badly worn after only a few insertions on this unauthorized clone.


Wowza! Funny to have your old alias on a cloned cart :)
HASLLLLLLLL... :shock:

eslapion
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Re: Behr-Bonz 2015

Postby eslapion » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:32 pm

For people who want the correct versions of the PAL and NTSC ROM images for use in VICE, here they are.

These include full credits to V1and3 and e5frog and an advertisement message.

... removed by request

The code for the old menu was left in so users with old EPROMs (2008) who want the new menu can get it without the need to erase the chip.

Blank EPROMs (or blank areas in EPROMs) are all '1'. Programming the new menu involves only shifting bits to '0' in the $000000-$001FFF area of the ROM.
Last edited by eslapion on Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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akator
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Re: Behr-Bonz 2015

Postby akator » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:10 pm

eslapion wrote:For people who want the correct versions of the PAL and NTSC ROM images for use in VICE, here they are.


Thanks!

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Re: Behr-Bonz 2015

Postby Phu » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:45 am

eslapion wrote:There have been clones of the Behr-Bonz multicart produced in the past and they have a couple of technical issues.

Since some people have associated these clones and their problems with my products, I find it necessary to post images of genuine Behr-Bonz carts from the 2015-2017 production batches and from those of 2008.

Clones of the Behr-Bonz have a red PCB, no proper screw holes for the case and use HASL on the edge connector.

Image
The HASL connector is badly worn after only a few insertions on this unauthorized clone.


I feel I must correct you on a couple of points here.

The red PCBs were made by me, in a limited run of 10* (see below) boards. They are not unauthorized, they were made after a serious of email exchanges between myself and yourself (I still have the emails in my inbox, the first reply of yours is dated 1st September 2009 - As you can see from the PCB photo, the boards were sent off for manufacture in October 2009, shortly after the email exchange).

As agreed, they carry the mark of "By Eslapion & Viande" and the original, unmodified ROM. You explicitly asked that no credits be changed, as I was only too happy to comply - I would not wish to take credit for someone else's design.

They were sold (at cost) at an open day event of the Retro Computer Museum shortly after being completed. I can forward you our email chain if you want further details.

The reasons for the missing holes and HASL edge connector (which imply are indicators of poor quality) are easy to explain. I did not (and still do not) have an actual VIC-20 cartridge. 3D Printers at the time were still a novelty, and getting accurate dimensions for where the hole went was something of a difficulty. Since I was not able to supply a case, and everyone was almost guaranteed to be running it "bare" anyway, I didn't put any effort into putting a hole in. I left space in the PCB for a hole to be drilled (you can see this space between the two resistors at the top, immediately to the left of the 74LS273 chip above the EPROM).

The HASL plating is far simpler to explain (beyond the fact that most of the people who acquired these boards were going to leave them inserted most of the time anyway) - the gold plating option was more expensive. And in 2009, I was on a damn tight budget.

As for technical issues... to date, there have been 11 boards made. 10 that were sold on as agreed, and 1 I built (from leftover parts) and kept for myself. To my knowledge, there has never been a single issue with any of the boards.

While I appreciate there probably are clone boards out there that you have *not* authorized, that have many technical issues, the red one picture above in this thread (Marked "BUILT OCT 2009" and "BY ESLAPION & VIANDE") are not among them.

Thanks

R Gellman

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Re: Behr-Bonz 2015

Postby eslapion » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:58 pm

Phu wrote:I feel I must correct you on a couple of points here.

The red PCBs were made by me, in a limited run of 10* (see below) boards. They are not unauthorized, they were made after a serious of email exchanges between myself and yourself (I still have the emails in my inbox, the first reply of yours is dated 1st September 2009 - As you can see from the PCB photo, the boards were sent off for manufacture in October 2009, shortly after the email exchange).

As agreed, they carry the mark of "By Eslapion & Viande" and the original, unmodified ROM. You explicitly asked that no credits be changed, as I was only too happy to comply - I would not wish to take credit for someone else's design.

They were sold (at cost) at an open day event of the Retro Computer Museum shortly after being completed. I can forward you our email chain if you want further details.

The reasons for the missing holes and HASL edge connector (which imply are indicators of poor quality) are easy to explain. I did not (and still do not) have an actual VIC-20 cartridge. 3D Printers at the time were still a novelty, and getting accurate dimensions for where the hole went was something of a difficulty. Since I was not able to supply a case, and everyone was almost guaranteed to be running it "bare" anyway, I didn't put any effort into putting a hole in. I left space in the PCB for a hole to be drilled (you can see this space between the two resistors at the top, immediately to the left of the 74LS273 chip above the EPROM).

The HASL plating is far simpler to explain (beyond the fact that most of the people who acquired these boards were going to leave them inserted most of the time anyway) - the gold plating option was more expensive. And in 2009, I was on a damn tight budget.

As for technical issues... to date, there have been 11 boards made. 10 that were sold on as agreed, and 1 I built (from leftover parts) and kept for myself. To my knowledge, there has never been a single issue with any of the boards.

While I appreciate there probably are clone boards out there that you have *not* authorized, that have many technical issues, the red one picture above in this thread (Marked "BUILT OCT 2009" and "BY ESLAPION & VIANDE") are not among them.

Thanks

R Gellman

Yes, I remember back in 2009 getting contacted for a batch of 10 cartridges. However, a few months ago, I had the nasty surprise of being asked why I don't put a hole for the screw of my cartrdiges (say what??) and being informed that some of my Behr-Bonz had no gold plating (I can assure you the ones I made all have it).

This means:
1- It appears easier to find photos of your replicas online than it is finding those of the ones I made
2- You did not clearly indicate at all these boards may have been designed by Eslapion and Viande (the menu in the newer generation is by e5frog) but they were not built by me at all

The boards for the first batch of Behr-Bonz were made by Multifor in Montreal in a manner extremely similar to the production methods used in the 1980s so mentioning 3D printers and such is not relevant.

Indeed, if you made only 10 boards, gold plating can be quite expensive. I assume these were made for a group of friend and so, it's every member of the group's responsibility to understand the possible consequences of using HASL in a cart port connector. MCes has implied that I sold Behr-Bonz cartridges with no gold plating and used the photos of your boards as proof.

I hope you had lots of fun building and using your own version of the Behr-Bonz but I hope you understand I'm not too happy when somebody uses photos of your creation to imply I acted irresponsibly by selling a flawed or misrepresented product.

If what you said above is true then you did indeed abide by the terms of our agreement and I thank you for it. Please be clear these were not made by me and at a time I had no interest or time to make more cartridges. Between 2009 and 2011, I was busy getting an electrical engineering degree.
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Re: Behr-Bonz 2015

Postby Phu » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:01 pm

Well, I have no control over which photos are easier to find. For my part, I only ever took one photo of the completed set which ended up on the RCM forums (plus one I took earlier today of the one I made myself).

I mentioned 3D printers because as I say, I don't have a cartridge to measure. However, object files for VIC-20 cartridges are available, and these days I could print one off and measure and fit against that.

Again I have no control over what other people say, but all recipients of the 10 boards were fully aware that I had made (including layout) the boards in accordance with your circuit diagram. If they've subsequently said otherwise, then I have no way of changing that.

However, I understand your frustration. In retrospect, I probably could have been clearer with the markings on the boards to distinguish between designer and producer, so I apologise for that oversight.

If anyone should level such an accusation at you in the future, please feel free to point them my way and I'll happily set the record straight on those particular boards.

Incidentally, as per agreement I have no intention of making any further boards, and indeed I have in the past turned down a couple of requests to do so on this basis.

eslapion
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Re: Behr-Bonz 2015

Postby eslapion » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:51 am

Phu wrote:Incidentally, as per agreement I have no intention of making any further boards, and indeed I have in the past turned down a couple of requests to do so on this basis.

Thank you for your understanding. I have received a few requests for more Behr-Bonz carts. If there is enough demand, I will make another batch and the boards, as with all previous issues, will be gold plated and have the screw hole.

BTW, since the old batch, I have added a reset to menu button. The addition of a standard 1N914/1N4148 diode and a 1k Ohms resistor is required. Maybe you'll want this mod for you and your friends. I suggest you send me a PM.
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amigo-mexicano
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Re: Behr-Bonz 2015

Postby amigo-mexicano » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:13 pm

I add myself to that request, I hope there's a new batch soon :)


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