Welcome! Please add your programs.

Basic and Machine Language

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Jeff-20
Denial Founder
Posts: 5759
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Welcome! Please add your programs.

Post by Jeff-20 »

Feel free to add your programs here. I'd love to have a selection of contemporary games to share with the community.
High Scores, Links, and Jeff's Basic Games page.
Boray
Musical Smurf
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 10:47 am

Post by Boray »

I think it would be better to have just one section with all user programs, expanded or not. You can just state in the topic for example 8k or 16k or unex. And, there is one much more critical difference between vic programs anyway... NTSC and PAL. 80% of us have ram expansions but probably 0% have both PAL and NTSC. Just one "user programs" section would be better I think.

/Anders
User avatar
Jeff-20
Denial Founder
Posts: 5759
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Post by Jeff-20 »

You're right. I was hasty in starting this board. I was thinking of seperating BASIC and ML programs because some of us take interest in one mode of code over the other.
High Scores, Links, and Jeff's Basic Games page.
Boray
Musical Smurf
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 10:47 am

Post by Boray »

Hmmm.... My programs are like 95% basic and 5% ML.... And now they are in the ML section... ;) Can't you just move your programs to the other section and then delete this one? You know you are the only one who have posted here....

/Anders
User avatar
Jeff-20
Denial Founder
Posts: 5759
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Post by Jeff-20 »

grrrrr

I think progamming in basic is an artform. The type-in programs of the 80s were almost all entirely basic. I also think there is an art in working with the unexpanded vic. I am interested in seeing these programs.

In these days of emulation and cross-development, has the basic program been forgotten? I'd like to see ten line sound programs here like those found in the back of the user guide or short routines to demonstrate the magic basic is still capable of. Anything simple like that?
High Scores, Links, and Jeff's Basic Games page.
Boray
Musical Smurf
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 10:47 am

Post by Boray »

As I said, my programs are 95% basic, so where do they belong now??? Maybe you should rename this forum to "Pure basic" then.

Btw, most type-in programs I've seen was something like:
10 fort=49152to49932:reada:poket,a:next:sys49152
20 data 65,34,211,54,54 etc etc...

And that is hardly basic ;)

/Anders
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
User avatar
Jeff-20
Denial Founder
Posts: 5759
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Post by Jeff-20 »

(grumble)

I guess it is the choice of the programmer. I seperate them so I can examine code for interesting techniques in basic and ml, respectively.
High Scores, Links, and Jeff's Basic Games page.
Boray
Musical Smurf
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 10:47 am

Post by Boray »

So I should continue to post my "Basic+ML" programs in the ML section then? I simply don't understand your thoughts about this. Why wouldn't it be possible to look at both the basic source and the ML if the two are used in the same program? Anyway, I'm not interested at all to look at peoples source codes, but I am interested to look at their programs.... running.... If you want to keep this section, then I think the names were better as they were...

/Anders
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
User avatar
Jeff-20
Denial Founder
Posts: 5759
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Post by Jeff-20 »

I hate being so "technical". I don't want to get into a big argument about coding/emulation/etc./etc.

I think there is a charm in pure basic programs (just as there is in working on the original hardware versus emulation). So, in short, I would like to see pure basic programs in this section.

I think ML programming removes certain limitations whether basic is involved or not. The pure basic program is how I was introduced to the VIC 20. The restrictions of ththe language create a whole new meduim for ingenuity.
High Scores, Links, and Jeff's Basic Games page.
Boray
Musical Smurf
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 10:47 am

Post by Boray »

The only restriction of interpretive basic (or any interpretive programming language) is..... lack of speed. A basic program will not become less pure once you compile it. Almost all my amiga programs are compiled basic:
http://user.tninet.se/~hlw771b/amigastuff.html

Here is the program listing for one of them:
http://user.tninet.se/~hlw771b/bl_source.html
(A real type-in program, don't you think :D )

/Anders
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
User avatar
Jeff-20
Denial Founder
Posts: 5759
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Post by Jeff-20 »

Can VIc 20 basic be compiled? I'm all into old-school basic programming. If I was worried about speed, I'd program for the PC not the VIC :lol:
High Scores, Links, and Jeff's Basic Games page.
carlsson
Class of '6502
Posts: 5516
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:41 am

Post by carlsson »

Most of the Basic program could be compiled, using various compilers (again mentioned in another thread). I think there was a limitation on which keywords the compiler handled - trigonometrics like SIN and ATN sometimes were outside of the scope, and in the worst case, floating point numbers as a whole may not be compatible.

Btw, how about writing a machine code program which does almost everything by LDA and JSR into Basic subroutines? The only thing one wouldn't have to is parsing the keywords (which is done once anyway).
Anders Carlsson

Image Image Image Image Image
Boray
Musical Smurf
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 10:47 am

Post by Boray »

Jeff-20 wrote:If I was worried about speed, I'd program for the PC not the VIC :lol:
Said by the man who actually uses x=. instead of x=0 to speed things up. :D

Anyway, there still is no section here for my programs. For example my last game "Mega Omega" - It's 4.7k of basic, 2k of graphics data and 367 bytes of ML (of which not even all is used as my whole x-screen ML program is in there.) and 864 bytes of unused space (sorry ;) ).

I would categorize it as basic. But as I use the basic command "SYS" to start a little ML thing, it is not "pure" basic, and it can't be put in this basic forum. How about having it in the ML forum then (where it actually is now after you changed the names). Well, if you think a file that consists of just 4.5% ML belongs in a ML forum, then fine....

/Anders
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
User avatar
Jeff-20
Denial Founder
Posts: 5759
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Post by Jeff-20 »

No, actually I am not sure. That's the frustration. I get your point... I guess I wanted a "pure basic" section and an "Everything else" section...

Scare City Motel and Blue Meanies form Outer Space are great parts of our programming history, but I think they should be seperate from Gridrunner, Bunny Hop and other games using ML routines.

ONly because most of us who started with the VIC started with BASIC.
High Scores, Links, and Jeff's Basic Games page.
Boray
Musical Smurf
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 10:47 am

Post by Boray »

The names are better now, thanks! My programs are now suddenly in the right place again. Thanks! (But "other programs" should probably be enough... ) ;)

/Anders
PRG Starter - a VICE helper / Vic Software (Boray Gammon, SD2IEC music player, Vic Disk Menu, Tribbles, Mega Omega, How Many 8K etc.)
Post Reply