Denial WIKI change / addition announcement thread.

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carlsson
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Postby carlsson » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:55 pm

Are you aware of this somewhat "hidden" directory on Zimmers?

http://zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/sche ... index.html

Wolfgang Günther in 1999 posted the VIAs should be at $9200 and $9210. Also check the schematics. What does CHKD and ENGR mean, checked and engraved? At least we know what K. Takagi did on Feb 5, 1981. :-D
Anders Carlsson

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ral-clan
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Postby ral-clan » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:09 pm

Ah, yes I did see that directory and had meant to post the schematics to the Wiki. Thanks for reminding me. As for those addresses, and the codes in the schematic - that's my weak point - technical details! I'm a historian by trade - I need support with the techie bits! :lol:

Also, the first SYS in the instructions in that article looks strange (it has an apostrophe in it). Is this valid, or an error from when the document was OCR'd (I can't remember where I got this text file).

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Jeff-20
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Postby Jeff-20 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:18 pm

ral-clan wrote:I'm a historian by trade. . .

I can't believe how lucky Denial has been. To have someone familiar with historical method is priceless to the hobby!
High Scores, Links, and Jeff's Basic Games page.

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ral-clan
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Postby ral-clan » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:04 am

Jeff-20 wrote:
ral-clan wrote:I'm a historian by trade. . .

I can't believe how lucky Denial has been. To have someone familiar with historical method is priceless to the hobby!


Thanks. First of all I should clarify. My degree is in Anthropology and Museum Studies, I've worked in museums for the past 13 years and I also do collections work & manage a small archive. So I'm heavily involved in the field of history/historic presentation. Sometimes it's just easier to say "historian" than describe all that - but strictly speaking, my degree is not in history - although more the management of historical items/information.

Regarding the Wiki: If I was able to do everything properly, all information would be backed up against a source with footnote references. But unfortunately, that's not always the case.

i.e. many of us here on Denial were also VIC-20 owners in the early 1980s. We KNOW that most VIC-20 owners back then had datasette drives, and that disk drives were FAR less common. Even though we all "know" this to be true, if the Wiki was a real academic paper, I wouldn't be able to actually include this statement unless I had some sort of hard resource to back this up (i.e. a published statistical study between datasette & 1540 owners or a historical quotation from someone in Commodore's sales department).

However, in reality, the information on VIC-20 history is much more vague and scattered. If I had to write only things that could be linked to a reference then nothing would ever get written.

So there has to a be a compromise. If we can't back up a statement with a reference, then at least we should make "safe" statements about the hardware and hope that any outrageous or erroneous statements will quickly get "called" and corrected by readers.

So, while less than ideal, it's still important. The Wiki is, I think, the first attempt to actually get all the historical information about the VIC in one place (Ward Shrake did something similar but I think his focus was on archiving the ROMs and less on historical information about things like case variations, product development, etc.). Anyway, I view the WIKI as a natural extension of Ward's work.

And just to remind everyone here - ANYONE can add to / edit / correct anything on the Denial WIKI at any time! It's your right!
Last edited by ral-clan on Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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orion70
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Postby orion70 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:37 am

ral-clan wrote:many of us here on Denial were also VIC-20 owners in the early 1980s. We KNOW that most VIC-20 owners back then had datasette drives, and that disk drives were FAR less common. Even though we all "know" this to be true, if the Wiki was a real academic paper, I wouldn't be able to actually include this statement unless I had some sort of hard resource to back this up (i.e. a published statistical study between datasette & 1540 owners or a historical quote from Commodore's sales department).

I'm no historian, but I know history can be written, or handed down from one generation to the next by telling the direct experience to the younger members of the family :wink: .

There was a time, my son, when people could only afford a Datassette, and no one had RAM expansions...

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ral-clan
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Postby ral-clan » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:16 am

orion70 wrote:I'm no historian, but I know history can be written, or handed down from one generation to the next by telling the direct experience to the younger members of the family :wink: .

There was a time, my son, when people could only afford a Datassette, and no one had RAM expansions...


Ah, you're right. "Oral history" has an important place in historical research nowadays.

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Kweepa
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Postby Kweepa » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:59 am

How about a poll? Would that give valid data?

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ral-clan
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Postby ral-clan » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:30 am

Kweepa wrote:How about a poll? Would that give valid data?


Not a bad idea at all, as long as it has a closing date.

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ral-clan
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Postby ral-clan » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:45 pm

Tweaking the VIC-20's video output:

http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/wiki/index.php?title=Video_signal_adjustments

I compiled this info from postings on Denial, so please, anyone with more technical knowledge feel free to edit the article.

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Postby ral-clan » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:50 am

VIC-1211A Super Expander article started:

http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/wiki/index.php?title=VIC-1211A_Super_Expander

As always, input from & editing by more technically knowledgeable people is welcome.

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carlsson
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Postby carlsson » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:56 am

It should probably go on the Discussion page, but exactly how common is the Super Expander? Given that some of us in recent years have owned a handful or more at the same time, it must have been reasonably common already back in the days. However I agree it wasn't common enough for 3rd party software houses to rely on people owning one.
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ral-clan
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Postby ral-clan » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:33 am

Good point. I changed the wording from "not common among" to "not ubiquitous among" which hopefully provides more of a sense of the Super Expander not being enough of a "de facto standard" be counted upon by software houses.

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ral-clan
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Postby ral-clan » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:02 pm

Article on RF-modulator improved:

http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/wiki/index.php?title=RF_Modulator

However, I have no knowledge of how PAL modulators work, or how it works with SCART TVs. Can anyone fill me in?

I don't even know if they broadcast on channels 3 and 4 like NTSC ones did.

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carlsson
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Postby carlsson » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:02 pm

PAL modulators generally output on UHF 36. There are a few exceptions but the VIC-20 one definitely operates at UHF frequency.

As for SCART, that would just be a variation on the composite video cable, using a different connector on the TV end. SCART has no antenna input function, just composite, S-Video and/or RGB inputs.
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ral-clan
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Postby ral-clan » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:30 pm

So PAL modulators don't have an option to switch between two channels?


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