Super Expander

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ajordison
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Super Expander

Post by ajordison »

I think my IQ has dropped this evening. I'm trying to run VICE with a super expander cartridge present (is that the right word?) but I can't get it working. I have the super expander prg downloaded from zimmers (and vice set up with a 3K expansion) but nothing seems to happen when I run it, i.e. it doesn't recognise any new commands.

Would I be better off with a crt image? If so, where can I get one as I can't seem to find one. :?
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groepaz
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Re: Super Expander

Post by groepaz »

mmmh wasnt super expander +3k ram AND some ROM cartridge elsewhere?
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ajordison
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Re: Super Expander

Post by ajordison »

groepaz wrote:mmmh wasnt super expander +3k ram AND some ROM cartridge elsewhere?
Yes it was, but the instructions with the super expander prg say that vice has to be set with a 3k expansion, and then you run the prg to enable the cartridge. The prg loads at $A000 but when you SYS it I get 'out of memory' errors for every command I enter.
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Mike
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Re: Super Expander

Post by Mike »

ajordison wrote:Yes it was, but the instructions with the super expander prg say that vice has to be set with a 3k expansion, and then you run the prg to enable the cartridge. The prg loads at $A000 but when you SYS it I get 'out of memory' errors for every command I enter.
That's quite normal and happens with all machine code that is loaded manually with ",8,1" into a memory range outside BASIC memory - a NEW corrects this, but this isn't necessary in this case here.

You'll have to enable +3K in BLK0 and +8K in BLK5 (and only those two!) via custom configuration: then it's sufficient to just throw the *.prg of SE into the VICE main window and then you press Alt-R to start SE.
ajordison
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Re: Super Expander

Post by ajordison »

Hi Mike,
Thanks for your help. I attached the prg as a cartridge image and it worked, though I had to do a soft reset myself as vice didn't do it but that's probably because I'm using an old version of vice.

Thanks again!

Arthur.
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Mike
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Re: Super Expander

Post by Mike »

:lol: ... I just removed the 'attach as cartridge' instructions while editing my above post, mainly because the alternative method I pointed out then is just slightly easier to perform. ;)

Is there any specific reason for your interest in Super Expander? Its graphics capabilities leave much to be desired, actually. :(
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Re: Super Expander

Post by ajordison »

The problem with the second method is when I load a program written with SE commands the reset clears SE from memory. This doesn't happen if I load SE as a cartridge, unless you know better!

The reason for this madness? Well a CBM prg Studio user was asking if it's possible for me to add SE basic tokens so it could generate SE programs. I've made the changes to prg studio but I wanted to get vice set up to test it.
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Mike
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Re: Super Expander

Post by Mike »

Note I wrote 'Alt-R', not 'Ctrl-Alt-R'. 'Alt-R' keeps the RAM contents.
ajordison wrote:The reason for this madness? Well a CBM prg Studio user was asking if it's possible for me to add SE basic tokens so it could generate SE programs.
Of course user satisfaction is a premium, but then I suppose this user knows nothing of MINIGRAFIK. :twisted:
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Re: Super Expander

Post by ajordison »

Yes but if I drag my SE prg into vice to load it, vice resets. Is there a way to disable this?
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Mike
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Re: Super Expander

Post by Mike »

Let me rephrase your last post just to make sure we're talking about the same issues:

1. VICE window is open, RAM config has been set to RAM in BLK0 and BLK5 (custom config),
2. SE.prg is dragged into VICE window,
3. VICE resets and then autoloads SE.prg, thereby 'mounting' the surrounding host directory in VDrive,
4. Alt-R soft-resets VICE, keeping RAM contents, and starts Super Expander.

Of course, if you *then* drag another program into the VICE window (which was supposed to use SE), this *will* clear the entire RAM contents. However, a client program could just be loaded from the PC host directory with the LOAD command. This is nothing though which could serve as batch procedure.

It is possible to attach SE with the xvic command-line options and autostart a *.prg file, which uses SE. That procedure only works with VICE - you'd have to reproduce that scenario on real h/w either with an actual SE cartridge or by soft-loading the SE program into BLK5 RAM and performing a reset - neither of which would allow for an automated load procedure as well.

...

Years ago already, orion70 and me faced those issues providing SE in soft-loadable form. It was intended to load and start SE automatically. Then it should chain to a given client program, which just didn't work (hint: the reset necessary to start SE interrupts any batch procedure). Then were there also other issues with its actual graphics performance, which led orion70 and me abandon SE.

MINIGRAFIK provides you with exact such a batch procedure, which will first load and start MG and then run any client which uses MG.
groepaz
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Re: Super Expander

Post by groepaz »

if I drag my SE prg into vice to load it, vice resets. Is there a way to disable this?
in the settings there is something "reset on hardware change" or so, disable that
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Mike
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Re: Super Expander

Post by Mike »

groepaz wrote:in the settings there is something "reset on hardware change" or so, disable that
ajordison referred to dragging either the *.prg file of SE or the client into the VICE window here: both actions clear RAM and auto-load the respective file, which is o.k. for the first file (i.e. SE, when followed by Alt-R), but clears that active, soft-loaded SE from RAM before the client is loaded.

Neither of these two steps count as 'hardware change'.
groepaz
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Re: Super Expander

Post by groepaz »

ah, of course. that only applies when using "attach cartridge"
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beamrider
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Re: Super Expander

Post by beamrider »

Wouldn't the easiest way be to just attach the megacart image and select super expander from the menu?
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Mike
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Re: Super Expander

Post by Mike »

Depends on the use case, I guess. As long as the client program is in development, it probably doesn't matter.

It still requires quite a lot of manual steps, regardless whether I:

- set the correct RAM config, throw SE.prg into the VICE window and then do Alt-R, or
- attach a Mega-Cart image, navigate through its menu, and start SE from there with a given RAM setting.

And neither of those two methods help the end user, who might just want to throw a *.d64 image into the VICE window to boot through to a client program that uses a soft-loaded SE:

http://www.sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web ... 4&start=16
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