Super Expander

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ajordison
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Re: Super Expander

Postby ajordison » Tue May 09, 2017 1:39 am

Thanks everyone for all the tips and advice. For the time being, loading SE as a cartridge is the best option for me as its the simplest, and as I'm only using vice to test programs and not develop with it, it's the easiest option too.

Cheers,
Arthur.
Try out CBM prg Studio over at www.ajordison.co.uk

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Kakemoms
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Re: Super Expander

Postby Kakemoms » Fri May 12, 2017 5:39 am

Mike wrote::lol: ... I just removed the 'attach as cartridge' instructions while editing my above post, mainly because the alternative method I pointed out then is just slightly easier to perform. ;)

Is there any specific reason for your interest in Super Expander? Its graphics capabilities leave much to be desired, actually. :(


It would be nice to see your graphics routines as an expansion. Jiffydos managed to squeeze into the Kernal, but it would probably be harder to get graphics expansion in there. Or?

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Mike
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Re: Super Expander

Postby Mike » Fri May 12, 2017 6:22 am

Kakemoms wrote:It would be nice to see your graphics routines as an expansion.

MINIGRAFIK works fine as is, and I have no plans to change its distribution form.

For smaller client programs that use MG, and during their development and tests, it's entirely sufficient to load and run the MG executable (thereby installing the BASIC extension) at the start of each "session" and then do the work on the own program.

When a MG application is ready for release, the MG batch suite provides the necessary boot loader. The boot loader will automatically load and run MINIGRAFIK and then start the client application.

Jiffydos managed to squeeze into the Kernal, but it would probably be harder to get graphics expansion in there. Or?

JiffyDOS removed the tape and RS232 routines from the KERNAL to fit its own routines in. The standard IEC routines are retained in case the computer is connected to a non-JD drive (and they're also necessary to use printers at the IEC port).

MG is 1K in size, and it would be easy as pie to put MG into the KERNAL in the same way JD did. Just, as I already wrote, I am not going to do it. Why should I be inclined to reiterate the same problems SE faced with client programs, with MG? Tying MG to hardware, either as KERNAL replacement or as autostarting BLK5 ROM - in the way SE did -, makes it only a bit easier for the programmer, but a lot harder for any user.

...

You see, MG provides all necessary means for 3rd party users to integrate it into their own programs. All fine. :mrgreen:

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hawk
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Re: Super Expander

Postby hawk » Sun May 21, 2017 10:17 pm

Hi All,
I'm the user who asked Arthur to add the Vic20 tokens the CBM Studio. I didn't even know they were different until I started helping another Vic20 user who hosts a site of type-in programs to debug one of his listings that used a Super Expander and was not working. I decided to use CBM Prg Studio to help me and that's when I found that the tokens for the Super Expander were different between the Vic20 and the C64. I could not find any official reference to these differences but got a garbled file when it was loaded into CBM Prg Studio.

I used VICE to test the latest beta version of CBM Prg Studio that Arthur sent me and all seems to work correctly. Now all I have to do is work out what's wrong with the type-in program! :roll:
Hawk

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Mike
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Re: Super Expander

Postby Mike » Mon May 22, 2017 4:45 am

If you provide a (link to the) scan, I can take a look at it.

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hawk
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Re: Super Expander

Postby hawk » Mon May 22, 2017 7:37 am

Home Computing Weekly, Issue 20, 19 July 1983, Page 30, Mazes make the game...here's how to construct them.

https://archive.org/stream/home-computing-weekly-020?ui=embed

The text is really small and the scan is low resolution. I haven't been able to find a better quality scan of it. I printed it out but that didn't really help.

Here's the link to the missing files where Richard is archiving all these type-in programs.

http://www.vic20listings.freeolamail.com/mag_hcw_m.html

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Mike
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Re: Super Expander

Postby Mike » Mon May 22, 2017 2:43 pm

hawk wrote:The text is really small and the scan is low resolution.

Beyond hope, actually. It's impossible to type in the program from this scan.

Might be sensible to post a request for a better scan in the "Collecting and History" section in the hope a Denial member has access to a paper copy of this issue. The 3D maze program is interesting in itself - and a good candidate for a port to MINIGRAFIK. :mrgreen:

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hawk
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Re: Super Expander

Postby hawk » Mon May 22, 2017 4:40 pm

Beyond hope, actually. It's impossible to type in the program from this scan.

Richard sent me a version of the program that had been typed in, however with the difficulty in reading the scan it had many errors and they were what I was trying to work out using CBM Prg Studio.

The 3D maze program is interesting in itself - and a good candidate for a port to MINIGRAFIK.

This is what led me to this listing in the first place. I've always been interested in first person dungeon crawlers ever since I played the first Wizardry game way back when. I've been researching the different ways that the 2D map can be interpreted and displayed as a first person perspective. The Super Expander was just a way of plotting lines so that I could investigate programs from other platforms.

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Mike
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Re: Super Expander

Postby Mike » Tue May 23, 2017 12:57 am

Hawk wrote:Richard sent me a version of the program that had been typed in, however with the difficulty in reading the scan it had many errors and they were what I was trying to work out using CBM Prg Studio.

Regardless whether the original typist used the scan, or had the paper copy available and "just" made some typing errors - that scan is of no help at all to reconstruct a working version of this program. You can only make less than good guesses at what was being meant there. For example, a lot of the program function will depend on numeric constants (graphic co-ordinates, POKE addresses and numbers, numbers in numeric expressions and comparisons) where one has simply no chance to decipher those, and this will cause spurious errors if not exactly the correct constants are put into the program. Syntactic errors are found easier, but then they're the least problem.

If anything, it would more sensible to do a re-write based on the documentary text, but then you have another program.


Edit: I put a request for a scan into the "Collecting and History" section.

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srowe
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Re: Super Expander

Postby srowe » Tue May 23, 2017 2:35 pm

The scan isn't great but I've transcribed it to a text file. I'm wrestling with petcat to tokenize it correctly. Will try some more in the morning.

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srowe
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Re: Super Expander

Postby srowe » Wed May 24, 2017 2:10 pm

I've got something that runs but there still seem to be bugs. Will check through the listing again tomorrow.
Attachments
maze.zip
(4.07 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

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beamrider
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Re: Super Expander

Postby beamrider » Wed May 24, 2017 2:52 pm

nice work, just seems to draw a triangle with 'WEST' written in it when I tried it..

edit: now drawing 3d maze (sort of) after pressing random keys

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srowe
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Re: Super Expander

Postby srowe » Thu May 25, 2017 2:23 am

OK, so one line completely missed out and a typo later and it seems to work. I also think there was an error in the original listing, line 30260 should read

Code: Select all

DRAW2TOX2-RP*DX,Y2-RP*DY
Attachments
maze.zip
(4.1 KiB) Downloaded 6 times


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