How do you use a multi-slot expander (motherboard)?

[ral-clan]

Hi, I must have about three different multi-slot expanders in my VIC-20 collection - all by different manufacturers. I remember back in the heydey of the VIC, in my locale, we used to call these "motherboards" (different meaning than today's usage, I guess).

I never owned one back in the 1980s, and the ones I have now do not have any documentation. When I plug one into the VIC-20 with a cartridge inserted into it, nothing at all happens. The VIC just comes up with the normal READY screen.

Some of these have selectors or dip switches to choose the cartridge port. But one of them has no selector at all.

Can anyone shed light how to use one of these things? Is there an SYS code needed?

[vic user]

two things to look for right away, is the fuse (if there is one) and the dip switches (if they have them).

the one that has no switches sounds like one that has all the slots active at once, which usually means that the carts. should be addressed to different blocks.

also, an expander with just simple on/off push buttons, sounds like it does not give you selectable banks, but at least you can decide which cart(s) get activated or not.

i can't remember the sequence of hand, but my cardco expanders have two dip switches for each slot, one being to address each to bank 3 and the other to 5.

i think the first two are for slot 1 etc.. and the first switch is for bank 3?

then it has a last switch for all the cards for bank 1.

good luck man!
chris

[ral-clan]

two things to look for right away, is the fuse (if there is one) and the dip switches (if they have them).

the one that has no switches sounds like one that has all the slots active at once, which usually means that the carts. should be addressed to different blocks.

Hmmm. I will have to get some pics of the boards up here. But I seem to recall trying an Omega Race cart in each of the slots, one at a time, and powering up each time to see nothing happening....so....is an SYS command in order to activate the cart?

Here are some pics of the boards:



The one on the right has no switches or controls AT ALL (how would you select which cart is active in this case???). The one in the back has toggle switches corresponding to each slot to turn that slot on or off, and also another toggle switch which can be set to RAM or ROM. The other board in the pic (at the left) is a Data-20 forty column board.

[Boray]

The expansion without switches: It most likely puts all cartridges you insert into the memory at once. The purpose is that you for example should be able to use memory expansions + programmer's aid + vicmon + super expander at once. Plugging two game cartridges in at the same time would not work. But if you tested to just insert one omega race cartridge, and it won't run like normal, then there must be something wrong with the expansion. Have you checked the fuses? I can see you have one on each.

[Boray]

Also try to clean the contacts

[vic user]

The expansion without switches: It most likely puts all cartridges you insert into the memory at once.

boray is bang on.

i have almost the same card (mine has 5 slots), and it is like that.

chris

[ral-clan]

The expansion without switches: It most likely puts all cartridges you insert into the memory at once.

boray is bang on.

i have almost the same card (mine has 5 slots), and it is like that.

chris

Okay, so I assume then it is 'auto starting' (no SYS code required).
I did replace the fuses before I tried to use it. But I will try and clean the contacts. I do recall I tried using several VICs though.

I just get a normal READY screen with nothing special.

Funny thing is: I also have trouble with Atari's Donkey Kong cartridge with my VIC-20s. I put the cartridge in and power up and I get a normal READY screen, like there was no cartridge in there at all. I thought my DK cartridge was dead, so I ordered another totally mint (in plastic wrap) one off Ebay, and upon inserting it, the same thing happened.

I wonder if there is a connection here. Perhaps there is a line used in both the Donkey Kong cart and the multi-slot expander that is not working in my VIC-20s.

Lastly, I noticed that it is not indicated anywhere on the expansion boards which way the carts should be oriented. I assume it is with the label towards the user.

[Boray]

Yes, the labels towards the vic.

Maybe your vic's contacts needs cleaning as well?

For cleaning contacts, use cleaning alcohol or similar. I use something called "Isopropylalkohol" after a tip by someone here.

/Anders

[Boray]

Okay, so I assume then it is 'auto starting' (no SYS code required).

Correct. If you put the expansion in the vic and a cartridge in the expansion, then it should be exactly the same thing as putting the cartridge directly into the vic.

[Boray]

Are there any chips on the expansion? I have a vic-1005 expander that's not working and I assume that it must be the onboard chips that's broken.

[Guest]

Good news!

I got both my slot expanders working. It seemed there was poor contact due to a short-circuit....probably a cold solder break. I "zapped" all the solder points on the exposed circuit board with a soldering iron to re-consolidate them. Then I also cleaned the contacts on the edge connector. I have used Isopropyl Alcohol in the past, but I find that for really stubborn oxydization and dirt the following are useful:

1. a vinyl art eraser: non-abrasive - will remove dirt but won't abrade the metal contacts.

2. a pink rubber eraser or 'pen' eraser: more abrasive, good for situations where a rubber eraser won't work.

3. fine steel wool: the kind sold in hardware (not kitchen) stores. Extremely fine fibres and unlike kitchen steel wool, contains no detergent! This works amazingly well and gets the contacts to a bright shine. Because the steel wool is so fine it doesn't remove much, or any metal from the contacts on the edge connector. Just remember to blow away any iron fibre dust that is created before use the device.

Okay, so now that my motherboards are working, I have a question: I heard you could combine RAM expanders, i.e. use a 3K, 8K and 16K expander at the same time. I tried plugging in all three at once, but the VIC only recognizes the largest one plugged in. Is there a special order, or is this even possible?

I also tried using my 40/80 column board in combination with the 16K RAM expander, and it worked (YAY!).

The only problem is that all this hardware coming out of the back of the VIC makes it very awkward to sit in front of a monitor. I wonder if it would be possible to build a ribbon cable "user port extension cord" which would allow me to set the multi-port expander beside the vic, but still be able to connect it. Anyone have any theories if this wold be possible or not?

[ral-clan]

Good news!

I got both my slot expanders working.

The above message was posted by me (ral-clan) but I guess that I forgot to log in and it got posted as a "guest".

Anyway, I wanted to add: with the steel wool or rubber/pen eraser, use gently and only when the alchohol or vinyl eraser won't do the job.

[vic user]

I wonder if it would be possible to build a ribbon cable "user port extension cord" which would allow me to set the multi-port expander beside the vic, but still be able to connect it. Anyone have any theories if this wold be possible or not?

hahaha, i have noticed the same problem using the 40/80 card and a slot expander .... the damn cable sticks up!

i have also mentioned using a ribbon cable to get the expander to sit beside the vic rather than behind it.

i know fools seldom differ, but i would rather go with great minds thinking alike on this one


chris

[vic user]

i have never fiddled with a 16K card, but with the 8K ones, you can take the case off and alter the DIP switches to get the 8K to address to:

switch #1 - block 5
#2 - block 3
#3 - block 2
#4 - block 1

you can use the prog. aid cart with the 40/80 card, alhtough after activating the prog. aid card, you need to hit run/stop restore

i think to get the 3K to be used with 8K you need to:

poke 642,4:sys 58232

i could be wrong about the last one

so you could have your 16K in banks 1&2 and your 8K in bank 3 and you should get about 28K and with the 3K fiddling a little bit more?

chris

[Leeeeee]

3. fine steel wool: the kind sold in hardware (not kitchen) stores. Extremely fine fibres and unlike kitchen steel wool, contains no detergent! This works amazingly well and gets the contacts to a bright shine. Because the steel wool is so fine it doesn't remove much, or any metal from the contacts on the edge connector. Just remember to blow away any iron fibre dust that is created before use the device.

Never ever do this with dry steel wool, if you must use steel wool use the type with detergent and use it wet.

The problem with steel wool is it leaves microscopic bits of iron embedded in the surface of the contacts. The wet detergent in kitchen steel wool, as well as being a degreaser, is also a good lubricant and helps avoid this.

If you must use a scourer because of corrosion or another difficult to remove tarnish it is better to either use a phosphor bronze brush or a plastic pan scourer, the latter being used wet with detergent.

Don't worry about getting things wet, just rinse thoroughly with hot water and dry with either a hairdryer on fast and cool or by putting it in a warm cupboard overnight.

Lee.