HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

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eslapion
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:47 am

norm8332 wrote:If it were silver you think it would be tarnished by now?

I don't know for sure what it is these carts used for contact plating but I do know it is much tougher than HASL yet doesn't cause any problems, just like gold. If you rub the contacts with a white eraser, they come back almost as clean and shiny as new. You can't do that with HASL.

For a long time I was puzzled with 'In The Chips' in particular because if it's not gold but doesn't wear and scratch like HASL, it's probably a much cheaper alternative to gold that can do just as good a job.

I suppose it would be a good question for a jeweler what metal can be used as part of a silver based alloy to prevent tarnishing.

Added edit:
See 'silver plating' here: http://www.sharrettsplating.com/industr ... troplating

A nickel undercoat can help to limit tarnish and prevent the formation of potentially harmful silver-copper intermetallics.
Last edited by eslapion on Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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norm8332
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:02 am

I think we can at least agree that in the majority of cases any possible issues caused by HASL to the VIC-20's cartridge connector can be corrected by a cleaning.

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:07 am

norm8332 wrote:I think we can at least agree that in the majority of cases any possible issues caused by HASL to the VIC-20's cartridge connector can be corrected by a cleaning.

I have no idea. So far, it always resulted in a trashed cart port connector for me.
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:21 am

eslapion wrote:
norm8332 wrote:I think we can at least agree that in the majority of cases any possible issues caused by HASL to the VIC-20's cartridge connector can be corrected by a cleaning.

I have no idea. So far, it always resulted in a trashed cart port connector for me.


If you ever encounter it again try this: Get a thin paint scraper and stretch some fine threaded material over the end of it like bed sheet material. Douse with isopropyl alcohol. Insert/remove it repetitively with the cartridge port. You will see the cloth get dirty with any material. I believe in the majority of cases this will correct the issue.

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:31 am

norm8332 wrote:If you ever encounter it again try this: Get a thin paint scraper and stretch some fine threaded material over the end of it like bed sheet material. Douse with isopropyl alcohol. Insert/remove it repetitively with the cartridge port. You will see the cloth get dirty with any material. I believe in the majority of cases this will correct the issue.

I thought of doing exactly that but with a spare PCB instead of the paint scraper.

This thread has stimulated my appetite for experimenting with some silver based solder I purchased nearly 15 years ago just for the sake of it.

Two years ago, I made a sort of test controller board for the datasette which allowed me to load and save whatever digital signal of my choosing and see what came back out and the intensity of the signal inside the datasette's op-amp based integrator/filter. This board has an edge connector destined to plug a datasette standard 6 pin receptacle. The result is interesting to say the least.
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:36 am

Depending on the silver content you would think it is harder than HASL.

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:44 am

norm8332 wrote:Depending on the silver content you would think it is harder than HASL.

Since I apply it with a soldering iron instead of some sort of machine, it doesn't give a shiny, polished look as what you see on mass manufactured carts but other than that, it seems to be exactly the same stuff as the plating on the cartridges you mentioned.

It's a lot tougher than HASL but it won't damage a gold plated receptacle. It does require setting my soldering iron to it's maximum temperature and may damage the PCB if not applied quickly enough.

Added edit:
It just occured to me Nicholas Coplin's Turbo/XE cart for the 64HDD and Super Snapshot V5.22 sold by Joe Palumbo both have HASL. I think they would both make great candidates for a contact plating replacement project.

Well... maybe not the Turbo/XE... I don't know anyone who uses 64HDD anymore.
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:40 pm

Rude awakening!

The material used on the contacts of the Creative Software carts is almost the same as this type of solder:
https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/e ... ND/5903575
It's 40% silver, it costs around 180$US for one tiny little tube of solder paste and it's melting point is around 700C (1300F).

The solder I used on my datasette board contacts is 2% silver, 98% tin and it's melting point is around 180C (360F). Even the standard SAC305 is better...
:(
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:29 am

This thread was originally from the one started for the 'Cheese & Onion' cartridge based game.

In there, you can see:
Author: Misfit, The Future Was 8bit, Tynemouth Software

I suspected the people at Tynemouth may not be informed of the requirement for edge connectors used in cartridge port connectors to be plated properly. I also know Tynemouth software sells the Penultimate Cartridge for the VIC-20.

Looking at the photos of this product on Tynemouth's web site, it seems they do know about the requirement and took it into account:
http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk/201 ... art-1.html

The only cartridges with HASL for edge connector is the prototype at the start of part 1 and the IEEE-488 prototype at the lower end of the page on part 2. All the other images show a gold plated cart.

However, every single board they show on their page for VIC-20 Cartridge PCBs use HASL for their edge connector:
http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk/201 ... -pcbs.html

All the carts shown on their VIC-20 Diagnostic kits also carry HASL edge connectors.
http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk/201 ... -kits.html
I guess in this particular case it's not so important because a diagnostic cart is not something you'll often insert in a VIC-20. You do it a couple of times to get a problem fixed and then that's that.

Go figure...

I tried posting a comment but you have to have a Google account.
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:52 am

I can confirm that the Penultimate cartridge I received is gold plated.

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:51 am

norm8332 wrote:I can confirm that the Penultimate cartridge I received is gold plated.

Then, IMHO, there isn't much of an excuse for offering a game cartridge at large with inadequate plating.

They know what to do and they did it right before.
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Re: Vic20 Vixen Switchable 16k RAM Expansion Repair

Postby eslapion » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:56 pm

MCes wrote:ok,
it will be "advertisement", but....

http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8582

Image

up to 37k selectable , I/O area fillable with RAM (useful for storing loader as SJLoad, or RABBIT), and BLK 5 can be write protected....

HASL edge connector!!!

Avoid at all cost!

https://db-electronics.ca/2017/05/31/su ... ion-carts/
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Re: FOR SALE: VIC20 FULL-RAM expansion cartridge +37K RAM with RESET!

Postby eslapion » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:59 pm

HASL edge connector!

Avoid at all cost!

https://db-electronics.ca/2017/05/31/su ... ion-carts/
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby MCes » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:36 am

Eslapion,
I respect the others religion,
but the fundamentalism is out of my respect.

I told you: or you post the list of people that had problem with this kind of connector, or you are only speaking about your personal religion!

Everybody can express own ideas, but I think that is necessary make a distinction between idea/suspect/conviction/proof/.

I THINK that "edge connector" was a bad solution adopted by Commodore (and other) for movible cartridges, but it was cheap, so....

I THINK that each "pcb finisch " generate a different kind of contact-problem: there isn't a perfect "pcb finisching"!

I THINK that without the names of people that had to repair owner VIC20 because they don't use gold cartridges your discussion is: the WC toilet has to be cleaned with "Water with gas" that is better than "mineral water".... Sorry, but without evidences I'll use the water from the pipe......

Somebody more diplomaticcally told you:
"Try looking outside, there's actually more serious problems in the world...
If anyone got connector issues from using this cartridge, I will personally repair it, free of charge."


I can be direct (using English, a language that isn't mine....), but my ear is open to listen, I am not a fundamentalist.

I think that my position is clear, and I'm tired of this polemics, so in future I'll try to write only "But who had problem? the names please..."
“Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” (Mark Twain ?)

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby groepaz » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:55 am

don't bother, he won't let it go :)


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