HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

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eslapion
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:59 pm

MCes wrote:And you are wrong

it's inside, not below so the note N2 of datas are valid....
"Exposure to Absolute Maximum Ratings conditions for extended periods of time may affect device reliability."

You're playing with semantics. 3.3V is 'inside' AMR and so is 3.8V ... so both would 'affect device reliability' ?

Unless I am a complete lunatic, my understanding of the above, in the case of the XC9536XL is Exposure to Vcc<-0.5V or Vcc>4.0V for extended periods of time may affect device reliability. No such thing on PLAnkton, rest at ease.

Anyways, you can't tell why there is a 74HCT74 on GandALF...
Last edited by eslapion on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby MCes » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:02 pm

Eslapion, but are you thinking that people are stupid?
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:04 pm

MCes wrote:Eslapion, but are you thinking that people are stupid?

No, but you think I am. :roll:
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby MCes » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:08 pm

I think that you are intellectually dishones, not stupid.
I start from concept that you are not dishonest (not only intellectually), but it seems that I did another mistake.....


http://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/raqs/raq-issue-50.html
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:12 pm

I'm really not taking any side in this...but reading the specs posted above it does seem that anything over 3.6V is in the AMR range..I don't think .05V will make a difference in longevity though.

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:16 pm

Stresses above those listed under Absolute Maximum Ratings may cause permanent damage to the device.

I put the emphasis on above. PLAnkton does not operate above 4.0V. The safety margin is slightly more than 300mV.

AFAIK, the AMR for the XC9536XL on Vcc is -0.5V to 4.0V and PLAnkton DOES NOT operate ABOVE (or outside) these conditions, unless perhaps if you plug it in the SID socket.
Last edited by eslapion on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:25 pm

I don't really care about this all that much because I think the PLAnkton will be fine, but it also says: "Exposure to absolute maximum rating conditions for extended periods may affect device reliability." I take this to mean anything from 3.61V to 4.0V and after 4.0V you get the magic smoke. Maybe I'm mistaken but that's the way I read it.

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:33 pm

norm8332 wrote:I don't really care about this all that much because I think the PLAnkton will be fine, but it also says: "Exposure to absolute maximum rating conditions for extended periods may affect device reliability." I take this to mean anything from 3.61V to 4.0V and after 4.0V you get the magic smoke. Maybe I'm mistaken but that's the way I read it.

The way I read it is exposure to 4.0V for extended periods may affect device reliability, if you go beyond that, at some point you will eventually get the magic smoke but we obviously can't tell exactly where. As I said before, I did run test up to 4.3V for reliability information reasons.
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:37 pm

Yeah, that's what one would think, but they don't really define what the 3.61-3.99V range would be considered then.

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:43 pm

norm8332 wrote:Yeah, that's what one would think, but they don't really define what the 3.61-3.99V range would be considered then.

"not recommended" because the interesting effect, considering parasitic capacitances, is to slow down the chip. For a PLA sub, it is actually a useful side effect.
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:55 pm

Maybe similarly, we could say HASL is "not recommended" but some use it anyways and end these arguments although we differ as to why. Me: because I believe the carts wear out faster, and you because you believe it broke your Cardco expander.

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby Floopy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:06 pm

From what I've been reading I think that norm8332 has the best answer to this, "HASL connectors are not recommended and therefore precautions should be taken when using this device" is a good enough statement.
-Floopy

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:08 pm

norm8332 wrote:Maybe similarly, we could say HASL is "not recommended" but some use it anyways and end these arguments although we differ as to why. Me: because I believe the carts wear out faster, and you because you believe it broke your Cardco expander.

Unlike the slightly excessive voltage which has a useful side effect in the case of PLAnkton, there is no useful side effect to using HASL on the edge connector of a board you can insert in a slot. There are only detrimental ones, except perhaps saving money.

Even then, in small batches, there are places which charge exactly the same price for HASL boards vs ENIG boards.
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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:42 pm

You know, on a side note, those Cardco expanders have the sockets exposed and facing upwards. This enables dust, dirt, moisture and anything else in the air or spilled to easily deposit in the connector over the years. Are you positive that this is a good comparison to the sideways mounted, relatively protected socket on the VIC-20?

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Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby MCes » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:45 am

Eslapion must defend a choose of project indefensible, he is trying everything and I, and everybody who had read the treadh, can see if (how much) intellectual dishonesty is present in me and in Eslapion, and it can be readable if/who/how much of this dishonesty is for simple mistaking or simply for protect a business.

The original PLA can be supplied with 5V+-5% so it can be correctly feeded with Vcc from 4.75V to 5.25V, with ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM RATINGS: 5.25V<Vcc<7V.

The chose into "PLAnkton project" are so orientet at the "low price" that it don't match at original PLA specific by the first caratteristics: the supply voltage! (for explicit admission of Eslapion the CPLD are NORMALLY out of own "Recommended Operation Conditions" with Vcc= 5V !!!!)

From the opposite side of analysis I see a lot of sand for eyes, a lot of smoke......

what pity.....

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