HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Modding and Technical Issues

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
MCes
Vic 20 Enthusiast
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:19 am
Location: Italy

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby MCes » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:41 am

The original problem is that the "game machine" producers had chosen a cheap (good, but not perfect) compromise to connect the cartridges,
a balanced chosen that show its limits.....

For example look the pics:
it's an electronic magazine (1981) that proposed a DIY kit of a 1000 games machine, it use a ZIF (Zero Insertion Force) socket....

I remember that the price of this kind of socket was abstronomic....

EDIT:
The KIT price is evaluable around 450€, each cart around 50€, chipset: Signetics 2650, 2636

IMG_0001.JPG
IMG_0002.JPG
“Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” (Mark Twain ?)

eslapion
ultimate expander
Posts: 4549
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:50 pm
Location: Canada
Occupation: 8bit addict

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:18 pm

norm8332 wrote:Apparently because of the large size of the pins/fingers It appears that even with extensive wear, the contact between the board and connector is enough to function properly. A percentage of the VICs out there most likely have wear on the connector, but as seen in the above first two pictures of the gold contacts some do not. Maybe because of limited cartridge use. I think as a result of this thread we could try to minimize further damage going forward.

Some people think that this is a trivial thing. And in some ways they are correct. But others like to know these things and want to develop best practices to possibly extend the longevity of the VIC-20 and try to contribute to the community. Plus I personally enjoy this stuff. :D

I think the VIC-20cr's cart port connector is going to be among the first to have problems because of the tin plating. IMHO, the fact it is tin plated does not make it better suited to HASL boards; HASL is a softer material than pure tin.

I managed to wear through one of my TRW connectors which is gold plated but I have to be honest and admit I did a huge number of crazy stuff with it.

I am very much interested in Thomas's FR-4/resin combo boards and I'd be thrilled to be able to have that for my next batch of Behr-Bonz or other VIC cart...

Added edit:
PM sent to Thomas
No one can do everything. Everyone can do something.

norm8332
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:04 am
Location: USA

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:54 pm

eslapion wrote:I am very much interested in Thomas's FR-4/resin combo boards and I'd be thrilled to be able to have that for my next batch of Behr-Bonz or other VIC cart...


That would be best IMO. But for low cost I think non-beveled is also an option for me for now at least.

User avatar
vicist
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:26 am
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby vicist » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:58 am

My expansion port 'condom' from eslapion arrived at lunchtime today.
Works a treat. Need to find a way to tether it to the Vic (nuts and bolts?) as it sits inside thus making it difficult to just remove any cart attached to it!

Many thanks Francois. :D

eslapion
ultimate expander
Posts: 4549
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:50 pm
Location: Canada
Occupation: 8bit addict

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:04 am

vicist wrote:Many thanks Francois. :D

I'm glad you like it! Spread the word!
No one can do everything. Everyone can do something.

eslapion
ultimate expander
Posts: 4549
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:50 pm
Location: Canada
Occupation: 8bit addict

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:45 am

norm8332 wrote:That would be best IMO. But for low cost I think non-beveled is also an option for me for now at least.

BTW, I noted the plating on the VIC-20cr connector is pure tin. That's not the same at all as HASL which is an alloy of different metals to make it's fusion point lower and make it softer.

My point remains; using HASL for the edge connector of a cartridge you sell and know will be used often is irresponsible.
No one can do everything. Everyone can do something.

User avatar
Radical Brad
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:18 pm
Website: http://www.AtomicZombie.com
Location: Kakabeka Falls, ONT
Occupation: hACKER

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby Radical Brad » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:46 am

I would like to have one for my V2K project.
No point making my own if you have these available.
Can you post a photo?
I have some space constraints.

Thanks,
Brad

eslapion wrote:
vicist wrote:Many thanks Francois. :D

I'm glad you like it! Spread the word!

norm8332
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:04 am
Location: USA

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby norm8332 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:17 am

eslapion wrote:BTW, I noted the plating on the VIC-20cr connector is pure tin. That's not the same at all as HASL which is an alloy of different metals to make it's fusion point lower and make it softer.

My point remains; using HASL for the edge connector of a cartridge you sell and know will be used often is irresponsible.


I'd hope it's not pure tin or there could be "whisker" problems. maybe I should take another look at higher magnification.

User avatar
vicist
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:26 am
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby vicist » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:50 am

Picture is already posted earlier in this thread here...

User avatar
Radical Brad
Vic 20 Devotee
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:18 pm
Website: http://www.AtomicZombie.com
Location: Kakabeka Falls, ONT
Occupation: hACKER

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby Radical Brad » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:24 am

Ok thanks.
there is certainly no issue with space constraints on that design. Nice work.

One question though,
How do you stop the entire unit from pulling out when removing a cart?
It would seem that it may be a 50-50 chance of either end coming out (cart or VIC).

Some type of mechanical connection inside the VIC would be required if so.


Brad


vicist wrote:Picture is already posted earlier in this thread here...

eslapion
ultimate expander
Posts: 4549
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:50 pm
Location: Canada
Occupation: 8bit addict

Re: HASL for cartridges? (split/OT from: Cheese & Onion)

Postby eslapion » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:34 am

Radical Brad wrote:How do you stop the entire unit from pulling out when removing a cart?

Bolt the eyelets!
No one can do everything. Everyone can do something.


Return to “Hardware and Tech”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest