Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

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RobertBe
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by RobertBe »

I have the cousin to the PVM, the Sony GVM-1311Q monitor, which has the the same connectors in back as the PVM, except the GVM also has analog/digital RGB inputs. Whether using a NTSC C64 or PAL C64 through the composite or s-video inputs of the GVM, the picture is beautiful and colorful.

Hey, I'll have to use the VIC through the GVM,
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by highinfidelity »

orion70 wrote:Agree with Eslapion. Attempts connecting a NTSC VIC to several PAL color and b/w monitors always ended with failures. My Samsung LCD TV is a modern multistandard set, accepting both signals, as Bobbi explained. Probably, the Sony professional monitor Hi is hunting for is specifically made to accept all signals, but it's an exception.
Agree. Some sets don't even sync to the vertical signal and the image rolls. Other sets can auto-adjust in such a broad range that they indeed sync to the vertical signal, but the displayed colours are completely wrong.

However, as said, these are not TV sets, they are professional monitors.

Eventually, I've chosen the 6'' version as it was much easier to find in Europe than the 5'' version. The case is nearly identical, with the same "professional instrument" look, and the slightly bigger screen will be of course a bonus. Hopefully the Friendly Computer will soon become close friend with his new mate Sony PVM! :D
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by eslapion »

groepaz wrote:oh please, you can read it up on wikipedia even. the different frequencies of the regular monochrome video signals are not directly related to the colour encoding used with them. there is PAL in 60Hz as well, for example. every PAL display, tv-sets and monitors, i have used could display NTSC composite for that matter (in b/w, of course). at worst you'll get a rolling picture, which you can usually fix by some knob twiddling.
Hurgh! Here we go again... Groepaz is always right...

My RCA 20" TV doesn't seem to be able to read wikipedia...

Since YOU used a few monitors and TVs and they all supported both modes then the rest of the whole world can't possibly be any different...

CRT display systems (like my old Amiga 1080) which don't have an electronic or digital signal sensing system MAY be able to do what you claim. Usually, they have a pot to control the vertical position.

All CRT TVs made after 1990 aren't like that and will only support ONE mode unless explicitly specified.
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by groepaz »

are you ignoring now that PAL-N, a realworld video system, doesnt quite match with what you are babbling? try reading that page for once.
that some monitors cant sync to a certain frequency is completely unrelated to the colour encoding, no more no less. exactly the same happens with plain monochrome video (which isnt "PAL" nor "NTSC", ever).
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by highinfidelity »

groepaz wrote:that some monitors cant sync to a certain frequency is completely unrelated to the colour encoding, no more no less
Did I perhaps say it was related, anywhere?
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

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i was referring to slappy, not you.
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by groepaz »

btw, to come back the topic... if you are *really* anal about getting proper colours from both PAL and NTSC VICs, then a single multinorm CRT monitor doesnt cut it - you'll need one with a PAL tube and one with a NTSC tube, the properties of the phosphors are slightly different. (TFTs are beyond hope regarding this anyway, unless we are talking about high end broadcast stuff)

edit:
All CRT TVs made after 1990 aren't like that and will only support ONE mode unless explicitly specified.
that btw isnt quite true at all - and only applies to TVs sold in the US, Canada, and some third world countries - in most other countries multinorm has been the rule, not the exception.
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by highinfidelity »

The user's manual touches this point and says that when NTSC video signals are received, a comb filter activates to increase the resolution, resulting in fine picture detail without color spill or color noise.
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by CanadaPhil »

Just wanted to chime in briefly as I didn't see the specific term mentioned in any of the replies to the Original Poster... unless I missed it... (sorry my eyes glazed over at the length of some replies)

Those are BNC connectors which are the norm
on "professional" grade monitors.

You simply require a RCA Composite to Male BNC adapter.
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by eslapion »

groepaz wrote:edit:
All CRT TVs made after 1990 aren't like that and will only support ONE mode unless explicitly specified.
that btw isnt quite true at all - and only applies to TVs sold in the US, Canada, and some third world countries - in most other countries multinorm has been the rule, not the exception.
1. Guess where I live ?

2. In most other countries, it is explicitly specified when CRT TVs are multinorm

So what exactly isn't true at all ?
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by Mike »

Dudes!

I just enter the type of the monitor "Sony PVM-5041Q" into Google. Already the first hit points to a site which features a comprehensive data sheet. To quote from there:
Other features of this rack-mountable monitor include underscan, pulse cross, blue only, AC/DC operation, a metal cabinet, and worldwide TV standard options (NTSC, PAL, SECAM, and NTSC 4.43).
So, it works with the VIC-20, regardless of it being the PAL or NTSC version. Period.

All you need, as CanadaPhil wrote, is an additional RCA to BNC Adapter for Line Video IN, Audio IN is directly connected. The inputs for component (this is *not* composite), or RGB, are not usable for the VIC-20 A/V-signal.

...

And, eslapion and groepaz, STOP that bitching contest!
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by highinfidelity »

Yes, BCN, correct. I never remember that acronym as it is mostly meaningless: it is composed by the surnames of the inventors (whose names of course my mind refuses to recall). As said I have a drawer full of them, as they're also standard on oscilloscopes. I think I will make from scratch a "tailored" A/V cable with one of them: the idea is to set up a "semi-fixed workstation" on the workbench, where just the VIC20 has to be installed or deinstalled, all the rest (cables, monitor, power supply) being placed permanently on the instrumentation shelf of the workbench. 8)

My hope is that this will increase my usage of my Friendly Computer. Most of the times I surrender to the annoyance of pulling out everything from the box (very heavy), unwind all cables (many knots each time), connect the power supply (cable too short, search for an extension cord), disconnect the TV antenna (scratch the watch against the wall because the TV antenna connector is in an impossible corner), and blah blah blah... :|

If something is annoying, you will not very likely do it on the long run
is my motto.

As a side note, the prices of the monitors for sale on the linked site are pretty much on the "crazy" side...
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by eslapion »

highinfidelity wrote:As a side note, the prices of the monitors for sale on the linked site are pretty much on the "crazy" side...
I am very happy with my 19" flat panel TV which supports both PAL and NTSC. The only notable drawback is it doesn't support S-Video.

I am still on the lookout for an S-Video to HDMI converter which would support "not quite standard" VIC-20 and C64 video signals and be compatible with both PAL and NTSC.
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by groepaz »

"Framemeister" is the weapon of choice for that - its not cheap though
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Re: Sony PVM professional video monitor and the VIC20?

Post by r.cade »

These Sony PVM monitors work great with the C64 and VIC-20, and everything else for that matter. Most of them will also do either PAL or NTSC and both decode the color and go to 50Hz/60Hz mode when detected. The RGB also works great, but of course only on 15KHz sources. With the right adapter, it works great on the Amiga, Atari ST, Apple IIgs, etc. Some models will also do digital signals (I believe) like CGA through a different adapter, but I have never tried that.

The video outs should technically be terminated with a 75ohm terminator, if it's the last/only thing connected. In practice, however, generally this seems to not be needed. Likely you might experience a slightly darker picture than normal without it.
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