Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

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Ghislain
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby Ghislain » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:02 pm

Thank you!

In the past, I was Dungeon-Mastering a D&D session and a newbie asked me if it was possible to use his CHARISMA to seduce a monster in combat.

Ever since that time, I always thought it would be pretty cool to implement such a game mechanic. Recently inspired by the PLATO version of Oubliette, I implemented the Courtesan class whose special power allows it to seduce humanoid enemies to join the player side as an ally.

To demonstrate, I include screenshots of a character I just created and the gnoll she just seduced.

realms5.jpg

realms6.jpg

realms8.jpg

realms7.jpg

realms9.jpg
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R'zo
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby R'zo » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:03 pm

Lol! That is awesome.

I once played a d&d game where we would get gigs at pubs as musician. We would roll charosma and performance to work the crowd and get paid. If we botched a performance roll it would end in a bar brawl.
It was a fun way to earn gold in a game.
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Ghislain
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby Ghislain » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:41 am

R'zo wrote:Lol! That is awesome.

I once played a d&d game where we would get gigs at pubs as musician. We would roll charosma and performance to work the crowd and get paid. If we botched a performance roll it would end in a bar brawl.
It was a fun way to earn gold in a game.


Very good. What I liked about D&D was going beyond the basic combat mechanics. People often bragged what they did in a D&D session like subduing a dragon. But that kind of action I've never seen implemented in an RPG computer game, so it's going to be available in Realms V (see below).

Here's an explanation for the powers I've programmed so far in the game, who can use them and what is the primary attribute that determines success.

Turn - Cleric - Destroy Undead (One Row) - Wisdom (Same as Exile the Undead but half as powerful)

Seduce - Courtesan - Control Humanoid - Charisma

Whisper - Druid - Control Animal - Wisdom

Beckon - Demondim - Control Demon - Wisdom

Subdue - Lord - Control Mythical - Strength

Disband - Sage - Destroy Contrived (Single) - Intelligence

Condemn - Monk - Destroy Immortal (Single) - Wisdom

These powers do not use any spell units -- but can only be attempted once per battle.
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beamrider
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby beamrider » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:41 pm

A bit late now but regarding your switch to assembler for this version, just wondering if you considered writing it in 'c' at all. Might have been a good compromise and fast enough for an RPG while reducing the dev effort...

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Ghislain
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby Ghislain » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:35 am

beamrider wrote:A bit late now but regarding your switch to assembler for this version, just wondering if you considered writing it in 'c' at all. Might have been a good compromise and fast enough for an RPG while reducing the dev effort...


Although I've used C-like languages (C#, Java, PHP) at work, I'm not very familiar with the C compilers for the 6502. Certainly doing it in C would have made it a lot easier to do math calculations, searching through arrays and the like.

I originally made Realms III in 100% assembly and then decided to make Realms IV mostly in BASIC with some ML routines. The rationale for the latter was that I thought it would be easier to program and that many great commercial RPGs for the C64 like Legend of Blacksilver were programmed as BASIC/ML hybrids. There's nothing wrong with programming RPGs or strategy games primarily in BASIC as these are not action-based games and most of the time, the game algorithm is always standing still waiting for player input.

Going 100% ML again with Realms V was influenced by these factors:
-I'd be using a non-conventional VIC-20 screen size (23*26), so any text output would not be using the KERNAL.
-I found that jumping to and from BASIC->ML and vice versa to be tedious at times while making Realms IV. Programming in 100% ML is a lot easier in that regard, and I don't have to tinker with the BASIC listings whenever a new change to an ML routine is implemented. I just run a single script that "compiles everything" and I see the results of my work right away.

I think looking back, it would be much easier to have programmed the game in a normal screen size (22*23). The party size certainly would have been a lot smaller (6 or 8 players). But it's kind of too late to refactor everything I've done so far. And besides, I think that having 10 players in your party is pretty cool. I don't think there are many 8 bit RPG games that can boast allowing that many players.
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beamrider
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby beamrider » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:24 pm

From the languages you have used, 'c' would be a very easy transition, just a matter of learning the restrictions. A quick read of K&R would suffice.

CC65 is a pretty good compiler. I used it to write Tank Battalion and that uses a large screen, you just can't use the built in conio functions [which seem hard coded to the vic normal layout], and must write your own outputs as you have already done.

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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby Ghislain » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:09 am

beamrider wrote:From the languages you have used, 'c' would be a very easy transition, just a matter of learning the restrictions. A quick read of K&R would suffice.

CC65 is a pretty good compiler. I used it to write Tank Battalion and that uses a large screen, you just can't use the built in conio functions [which seem hard coded to the vic normal layout], and must write your own outputs as you have already done.


Actually, I use CA65 so the learning curve would have been fairly quick. I think this is my final Commodore retro RPG project and I will probably port this game to a mobile platform (while using the same graphics to give it the aesthetics of an 8-bit retro game).

realms5.jpg


I just programmed (and tested) the singing fight option. Previously, I was only planning to give bards this power, but after thinking about it, I also decided to give it to courtesans. The courtesan is an underpowered character, and the seduce power that they can wield does basically the same thing as a charm monster wizard spell (albeit, seduce does not cost any spell units, they can be used once for every battle, and can only work against humanoids). So having an ability to sing adds a bit more depth to the courtesan class.

How it works:

When a player sings, the entire party gets an armor bonus and a saving throw bonus of 2 for the duration of that combat turn. A charisma check is also performed to see if an additional bonus of 2 to these is also applied (so you can get a bonus of 2 or 4).

The singing bonus applies irrespective if the entire party is under the influence of the priest buff defense spells, so these can work in tandem. However, the singing bonus is NOT cumulative if more than one bard/courtesan decides to sing for that combat turn (and just to note, priest buff spells are also not cumulative as well). I did this because I don't want a party to become indestructible (although a natural roll of 20 does make an automatic hit -- yes, my game does use d20 internally for combat attacks).
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby orion70 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:25 am

It's becoming VERY complicated! (Just like in real life, I suppose :)). I guess in its final form the game will have a steep learning curve, and a thick manual. Not that I won't like it - it'll only add value to this "final RPG" - but I wonder if you could introduce a simplified version of it, i.e., press D for dumb game and F for full game before starting. In the easier mode, you'll have less options, (partly) automatic fights, only basic stats for each character, etc. Useful to get comfy with the game, before tasting the whole cake. Only a suggestion though (I don't know if it's technically feasible).

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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby Ghislain » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:44 pm

orion70 wrote:It's becoming VERY complicated! (Just like in real life, I suppose :)). I guess in its final form the game will have a steep learning curve, and a thick manual. Not that I won't like it - it'll only add value to this "final RPG" - but I wonder if you could introduce a simplified version of it, i.e., press D for dumb game and F for full game before starting. In the easier mode, you'll have less options, (partly) automatic fights, only basic stats for each character, etc. Useful to get comfy with the game, before tasting the whole cake. Only a suggestion though (I don't know if it's technically feasible).


Making a stripped down version of this game to work alongside with the current game woukd be quite a bit of work. But... Realms V is almost the exact same game system as Realms IV wih more races, classes, equipment and withh soecialized powers for specialty classes, that is all. Oh and it's programmed entirely in ML. So It's not really much more complicated than the other 1980s RPG games of that era that it pays homage to.

Maybe the 10 player party size seems daunting, but it's quite easy to get used to once you play with it after a while.
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby R'zo » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:10 pm

I enjoy a nice complicated system. Most of my favorite rpgs i've had to play half way through befor i fully understand how to play the game. If the system is to simple, strait forward or generic the game tends to get boring fast.
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby Ghislain » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:00 am

R'zo wrote:I enjoy a nice complicated system. Most of my favorite rpgs i've had to play half way through befor i fully understand how to play the game. If the system is to simple, strait forward or generic the game tends to get boring fast.


I often played for weeks just wandering around, exploring and whacking monsters before I started to make any serious headway into solving Ultima IV.

Since the combat module is pretty much 95% completed, I decided to go through a monster image review and re-do some of the graphics. Here are some of the new images:

realms5.png

realms6.png

realms7.png

realms8.png
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby Ghislain » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:43 am

More images:

realms5.png

realms6.png
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby Ghislain » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:45 pm

Somebody is making a Pool of Radiance style CRPG for the VIC-20!

https://twitter.com/petrih3/status/897548652498923520

image.jpeg


He will be a worthy adversary. #VIC20

PS: looks like phvic is making this game:

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=13078

PPS: He is the creator of Legend of Grimrock (and Demons of Dex for the VIC 20)so it looks like I will get my butt kicked. But I promise not to go down without a fight ;)

PPPS: Legend of Grimrock is ranked #1 dungeon crawler of all time while Realms III and IV are #55 and #64 respectively. http://www.dungeoncrawlers.org/top-100/
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R'zo
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby R'zo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:33 pm

Your revised monster pics look beautiful. Very wonderful work. I ecspecialy like the the red dragon, orcus and black puddin. I can't wait to see them on hardware.

Have you done any dungeon work yet?

To the last post, i never played legeds of grimrock but demons of dex was one of my all time favorite rouglikes ( it had influence on oth exit plan z and legend of the lost catacombs.) So I'm deffinately curious about this. However I wasn't a huge fan of pools of radiance.

I thought phvic dropped out of the scene and wasn't going to do anymore commodore games after the whole demons of dex thing. (Which was a shame, i would be honored if someone wanted to clone on of my games.)
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Re: Work in progress: REALMS OF QUEST V

Postby Ghislain » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:02 am

R'zo wrote:Your revised monster pics look beautiful. Very wonderful work. I ecspecialy like the the red dragon, orcus and black puddin. I can't wait to see them on hardware.

Have you done any dungeon work yet?

To the last post, i never played legeds of grimrock but demons of dex was one of my all time favorite rouglikes ( it had influence on oth exit plan z and legend of the lost catacombs.) So I'm deffinately curious about this. However I wasn't a huge fan of pools of radiance.

I thought phvic dropped out of the scene and wasn't going to do anymore commodore games after the whole demons of dex thing. (Which was a shame, i would be honored if someone wanted to clone on of my games.)


Thank you! I've revised some more of them. When I did the 135+ monster images, I sort of did them in assembly line fashion. Many of them I wasn't satisfied with on the first run but after spending upwards of 60-90 minutes on some of them I decided that I should be satisfied with "good enough". So it's nice to go back on the second run and just re-do those images that I'm not satisfied with from a fresher and less mentally fatigued perspective.

realms5.png

realms6.png

realms7.png


I wasn't really around during the time that phvic put out Demons of Dex. He remains a VIC-20 enthusiast, based on his Twitter feed.

I have done very little work on the dungeons -- I updated the dungeon editor a few months ago to match the specs of the game (25*25 dungeon floors with more interactive text). I still have to do work on the graphics for the dungeon. I actually approached another Denial member about possibly doing the 3D dungeon graphics work, but haven't heard from him in a while.

But the dungeon work is far off, next on the horizon after the graphics review will be creating the cities and the engine to explore them. I've been playing Ultima VII lately to inspire me as to how I will program the portions of the game where you interact with the townspeople.

Speaking of Ultima VII and the complexity of CRPGs -- I find the game mechanic regarding food to be very tedious and annoying. Not only do the characters in your party complain constantly about being hungry, you have to manually go inside their inventory, double click on the food item and then drag it to their mouths. And then 5 minutes later, they still complain about being hungry.

I think a detailed world is nice, but I also think that there should be a certain layer of abstraction in gaming where you don't worry about these kinds of details.
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