Attract mode

[Vic 2000]

If you look at all games from Atarisoft for exemple, they run a short demo of one of the levels, then returns to title screen, like an arcade machine. The data for this couldn't take many bytes extra? Let pacman gobble some dots automatic in a pre set path, then return to title screen. Some games run much longer demos like K-Star Patrol for exemple.

[Kweepa]

For an unexpanded machine, I'd rather squeeze more features into the game (a map, more sounds, longer music, another enemy, a boss, another level/screen).
Horses for courses though.

[Vic 2000]

I don't think that attract mode takes more then a few bytes actually.

Why even think in terms of "unexpanded".

Use 16k as minimum, we can afford it today, and even more if we want.

[Kweepa]

Most attract modes would probably take quite a few bytes.
First the game loop would have to be expanded to take input from either the player or the replay (maybe 30 bytes).
Then the attract loop would have to switch into replay and back (maybe 70 bytes).
Then you would need some replay data (could be anything from 50-500 bytes!).
150-200 bytes is plenty to add new gameplay features. The map screen in The Keep was added late when I freed up another 150 bytes.

Unexpanded is a philosophy to see what you can do with the stock machine. It's a constraint, like any retro programming.

[Vic 2000]

I can understand that, and perhaps for competitions? Atari 800 Floppy Bird was an 1kb game for exemple.

Some games really need the attract mode while other don't need it at all. Just look at all the arcade machines that's running pac-man, moon patrol, missile command, frogger and all other classic games. It would be quite dead without the attract mode. Games are not just for playing, they are for watching as well, that's why i download tons of longplays.

For me it look like this these days

Playing games - 2%
Watching games - 98%

For real big games, this can be the thing?
http://hackaday.com/2014/01/27/flash-ga ... he-vic-20/

[rhurst]

Unexpanded is a philosophy to see what you can do with the stock machine. It's a constraint, like any retro programming.

Right on. And how many of you waited for Pitfall Harry to start his demo run, over and over, into a nasty? But at least, to VIC 2000 urging, it's in there.

I think Pooyan's animation sequencing is just about right, too. I think "attract mode" is any sequencing done before and/or after adds that little creative touch to complete a game. It need not be animated, it need not even be visual if the tune is catchy. If you feel the need to "watch" someone else play _the_ game, there's a YouTube library of that kind of stuff out there.

[Vic 2000]

Pooyan?

The Atari 8bit version contains the attract mode as on the orginal arcade machine, so does the C64 and Atari 2600 version.

Attract mode is a vital part of many arcade games. That mode was very importand for getting people interested in to play the game and keeping the arcade hall full of sound and animation all the time. To get the games real autentic, attract mode should be included.

(me think)

But as you guys say, there's lots of versions, there's lots of clips on YT too.

[Vic 2000]

Seriously, it's small bits like...

* Small animations
* A bit of colour cycling
* A descent title screen
* A screen containing a high score list
* And a small demo of one level

That makes a game coming alive. Without those small bits a game will feel quite flat and dead. Nintendo NES went even further and included small cut scenes for exemple. Donkey Kong was the very first game containing cut scenes. A game is much more then just playing. A game is something that you watch and listen too as well. Just look at old Game and Watch that contained simpler hardware then Vic-20, yet Nintendo managed to produce awesome games like Donkey Kong (double screen), Manhole and many more.

It's the details that makes a game good.

[rhurst]

Heh-heh, I think you beat up this point quite enough. I don't think anyone here will argue that. There are real space constraints when you factor in a stock VIC 20 arcade game. Look at the last release, Pulse. I suggested it be tweaked and relocated into a 4K ROM cartridge, and take it to another place. But, that's always easier said than done.

I personally agree with you that it adds polish, completeness, a piece of of the author's creativity -- it adds real value to a game's overall presentation, and is mostly expected. So, point well taken, even if it cannot be implemented for the reasons cited.

[Vic 2000]

It's the small touches that make the game more polished, as you say. It don't have to be hard to do or very memory consuming either. It's so many games out there that just leaves you with just a static black screen contaning a small text when a simple touch could make the game presentation a lot nicer.

To all game writers. When writing a new game. If it's possible, and some memory left to play with after finishing all levels, use it to spice up the games presentation a bit.

[beamrider]

I think we all target a specific memory configuration when we start writing a game. I would have love to include more features including an Attract mode in Pooyan but I didn't want to stray into 24K which is an uncommon memory configuration for the Vic-20.

Speaking in particular of Pooyan as a case-in-point, the other ports you mention all have their limitations. The 2600 is so far away from the Arcade I won't include even it in the discussion. The C64 version weighs in 21.5 K which is 2K more than the Vic-20 and the vic version needs to include a software sprite library in that since it doesn't have hardware sprites like the C64.

The Vic version inclludes these features over and above the C64 version.

- Title screem baloon rising/pop animation
- Cut scene intro
- Ballon burst animation on reaching top of screen
- Baloon inflating animation
- Explosions when rocks hit ground/side
- Wovles Eyes blinking up/down
- Wolves panic animation when ballons bursting
- Explosion when arrows collide with rocks
- Pivoting rock at top of screen on level 2
- Animation of pooyan being kocked out of car by falling rock
- Game over musical dittie

So the question becomes, which of these gameplay features should be removed to make room for a demo/attract play mode?

[Vic 2000]

I think that you made a real good version of Konami's classic arcade game.

When all memory is used it's not much to do. Your version is quite complete even without the attract mode. Else the attract mode is quite short on Pooyan and shouldn't take many bytes to implement?

Attract mode is mostly achieved two ways

Either let the sheep fire some shots at random for a few seconds or fire the same shots every time while the wolves moves the same every time.

It should be like midi data because all the graphics coding in the game are already done and consume just about no space at all? As, let ship X move from point A to point B automatically by just input the coordinates for movement?

[beamrider]

Thanks

Yes, I agree it would perhaps take 100 bytes or so to implement an attract mode and wouldn't be difficult, but as I said one of the other features would need to be removed - I only have about 7 bytes free! The RAM limit is a brick wall!

Alternatively, *perhaps* it would be possible to optimise all the code and squeeze a bit more into the available memory but this would potentially introduce new bugs and invalidate all the testing so-far.

[Vic 2000]

In fact, i like your version of Pooyan even without the attract mode. It's a great job of coding to make Pooyan look and play this good on Vic-20 and it's way better then the Atari 2600 version of the game.

It's not my meaning to be an old grumbling goat in this thread. I just points out that small cosmetics and changes can improve a game pretty much. And just about anything is better then just a black (almost empty) screen contaning some words of text.

[beamrider]

Thanks, no worries.

I'm sure we all admire your enthusiasm and the discussion points you raise - I see you have 130 posts to this forum in the space of 3 weeks!

I think we all also accept your point that an attract mode is an important part of the experience should be included (memory permitting).