New interpretation of Pitfall! for PAL Vic + 16K

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Victragic
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Post by Victragic »

Boray wrote:Don't you have PAL in Australia?
Yes, we have PAL in Australia. This has been a VICE project for me so the choice of video format was somewhat arbitrary - but the version of Atari Pitfall! I've been playing is NTSC, and I like the speed better. The only way to match the speed and retain the pixel-smooth animation is to use the same video format.

My point is, there's always compromise..
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Victragic
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Post by Victragic »

Kananga wrote:Great work! I can't wait to present it at the next Commore Meeting in Graz :)
Cheers! From Australia to Austria, why not?
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Post by rhurst »

Work of art! Excellent! 8)
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Kananga
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Post by Kananga »

Victragic wrote:
Kananga wrote:Great work! I can't wait to present it at the next Commore Meeting in Graz :)
Cheers! From Australia to Austria, why not?
Actually I lived in Adelaide for some time (without my Vic-20 collection - horrible time). So Austria is obviously not too far away :)
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Victragic
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Post by Victragic »

rhurst wrote:Work of art! Excellent! 8)
Thanks!

@Kananga, small world indeed!
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Victragic
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Post by Victragic »

Well, I have had a look at this game on a real Vic courtesy of the magic of SD2IEC and the generosity of Tokra.. a real thrill to see this and lots of recent games on the actual hardware! (By recent, I mean last three years - the game 'fickle' is my favourite during that time - brilliantly maddening and great chunky graphics)

I have to confess though, I'm kind of bummed by how this version of pitfall looks on the real hardware compared to on the emulator. I don't know whether it's my LCD tv giving lousy analogue to digital conversion, or whether it would look the same on every screen. I'd forgotten how some colours create bleeding and distortions, and some combinations just don't work at all.

I'm lining up getting an analogue display in a week or so to try it out.
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Post by pallas »

Victragic wrote:I'm lining up getting an analogue display in a week or so to try it out.
I think the simple solution is a modern lcd display with composite input. This way you can see the output pretty clean from tv artifacts and distorsion (which may vary greatly from tv to tv).
I'm lucky my samsung lcd has composite and s-video, so I can connect both the vic-20 and the other computer (+ my pc on the dvi port).
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Post by Mike »

Victragic wrote:I'm kind of bummed by how this version of [P]itfall looks on the real hardware compared to on the emulator. [...] I'd forgotten how some colours create bleeding and distortions, and some combinations just don't work at all.
Does your VIC-20 have some variant of the S-Video mod applied to it?

Especially on the CR variant of the PAL VIC-20, the default circuitry does a really bad job providing the composite signal. Red, Cyan, Green, Purple, Orange and their light variants all appear with 'teared' pixels in a checkerboard pattern (mostly obvious with 1-pixel-wide vertical lines over white or black background). This tearing entirely disappears with the S-Video mod.

What remains is the 'leaking' of colours to the right and into the next line. That happens because of the PAL system itself and is only less noticeable when more contrasting colour pairs are involved. Of course, the green crocodiles in the blue water don't contrast that well, but which other choice do you have?
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Victragic
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Post by Victragic »

I have been using a CR Vic, but I also have an earlier non-CR version which requires a little work to become operational.

S-Video would be a bit pointless as I don't have an output device that uses this, so I will go with building a composite output cable and see how that goes.

It did bring back some memories of using a Vic in the 80s though.. trying to decipher green text on a Scott Adam's adventure was a game in itself..
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Post by joshuadenmark »

I can recommend this for sure, runs great and the control of the hero is accurate, lots of arcade fun :D
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Post by Mikeyb »

Wow, I've just loaded this up one one of my PAL VICs via a 1084s monitor and it looks GOOD

I'm blown away by the smoooooth animation, it's almost like a C64 game

Thumbs up from me! Superb effort

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Post by Victragic »

Thanks guys!

I reckon a 1084s monitor would be the best way to view this (and of course many many other) Vic games. It was a sad day when my 1084s curled up it's toes. Component or S-Video output would be next best - I'm making do with composite output, which gives great colour but doesn't fix the 'bleeding' issues mentioned above. Having said that, it's many many times better than RF modulator.

..and nothing beats playing a Vic game on a real Vic, if you're lucky enough to own one. :)
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Post by Boray »

A modern LED/LCD TV beats any PAL CRT monitor in my opinion. Because of the 50 Hz flickering. If you get used to a LED/LCD TV and then watch something on a PAL CRT you go HEY how could I ever watch this?

On a modern TV there are things like "image enhancement" or "noise reduction". Turn everything like that OFF and you have to adjust colors, brightness and contrast too of course. They all have totally messed up settings by default. Always. It's hard to understand why.
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Post by pallas »

Boray wrote:On a modern TV there are things like "image enhancement" or "noise reduction". Turn everything like that OFF and you have to adjust colors, brightness and contrast too of course. They all have totally messed up settings by default. Always. It's hard to understand why.
I think it's like what they do with samsung oled phones: they put the contrast up to impress people. With TVs, they must show a bright and outstanding picture, so people will buy their tvs in the malls.
But it's bad for the eyes: better turn down both contrast and brightness, imho.
My tv does "image enhancement" by detecting text on the picture and making it sharper; it also does "noise reduction" but it's only for mpeg playback, it just makes mpeg artifacts "better".
Then it all comes down to the retro feeling. If I had more space on the desk, I might try an old monitor :-)
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Post by Boray »

A good thing is that there often are separate settings for each input of the TV, for example, the settings you do for your VIC-20 using the A/V port doesn't affect the settings used when watching TV.
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