1581 issues (split/OT from: Ultimem or Final Expansion?)

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Commodorianen
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1581 issues (split/OT from: Ultimem or Final Expansion?)

Postby Commodorianen » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:14 am

plbyrd wrote:Hardly any VIC20 owners are going to have a 1581.

Mike wrote:People went beyond the VIC-20 at that time, with a C64, C128 and - possibly! - a 1581. As it happens, the 1581 *works* with their VIC-20, that people just might have kept. For whatever reason. It was, and still is, a working solution for big applications and games, and Ghislain is going that way with Realms of Quest 5.

Well, the 1581 seems incompatible with the DIRECTORY command in BASIC V4, at least when I try that the directory listing usually stops at some random place. I'm having no problem with the DIRECTORY command with a 1541-II though, or if I do LOAD"$", 8 followed by LIST with a 1581.

(mod: quotes re-assigned to correct authors)

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Mike
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Re: 1581 issues (split/OT from: Ultimem or Final Expansion?)

Postby Mike » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:37 am

Commodorianen wrote:Well, the 1581 seems incompatible with the DIRECTORY command in BASIC V4, at least when I try that the directory listing usually stops at some random place. I'm having no problem with the DIRECTORY command with a 1541-II though, or if I do LOAD"$", 8 followed by LIST with a 1581.

Well, I don't know how your complete setup looks like. The 1581 indeed employs a slightly faster variant of the standard IEC protocol than both 1540 or 1541 which might lead to unexpected time-outs - most probably in the presence of iffy cabling.

You could check against VIC WEDGE, just enter @$ at the "READY." prompt and tell if you can reproduce the issue.

Greetings,

Michael


Edit on 2017-12-26: in the absense of any hardening facts I tend to contribute Commodorianen's issues to connection problems indeed.

Commodorianen
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Re: 1581 issues (split/OT from: Ultimem or Final Expansion?)

Postby Commodorianen » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:24 am

Mike wrote:
Commodorianen wrote:Well, the 1581 seems incompatible with the DIRECTORY command in BASIC V4, at least when I try that the directory listing usually stops at some random place. I'm having no problem with the DIRECTORY command with a 1541-II though, or if I do LOAD"$", 8 followed by LIST with a 1581.

Well, I don't know how your complete setup looks like. The 1581 indeed employs a slightly faster variant of the standard IEC protocol than both 1540 or 1541 which might lead to unexpected time-outs - most probably in the presence of iffy cabling.

You could check against VIC WEDGE, just enter @$ at the "READY." prompt and tell if you can reproduce the issue.

Greetings,

Michael


Edit on 2017-12-26: in the absense of any hardening facts I tend to contribute Commodorianen's issues to connection problems indeed.


Perhaps you are right that it is a connection problem but I've seen it with two different VIC-20s (the serial connection stopped working completely on the first one so I bought a second VIC-20 since I unlike many other people in this group don't have the knowledge or interest to do HW repair, but I see the problem with the second VIC-20 too). Furthermore, I only see it with 1581, not with a 1541-II that I also tested with. I might try with your VIC WEDGE proposal the next time my Commodore interest grows enough to hook up the VIC-20 again (I'm currently in a low in my fluctuating interest curve when it comes to using Commodore computers). Personally, I wouldn't be so sure that it is a connection problem until I've heard more people test the DIRECTORY command in BASIC 4 with a 1581 several times with a long directory listing. The 1581 came out when the VIC-20 was considered pretty much obsolete so maybe not so many people have tested this.

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Mike
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Re: 1581 issues (split/OT from: Ultimem or Final Expansion?)

Postby Mike » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:05 am

The burden of proof is on your side for what matters.

I've seen enough cases, where people had electrical interference and/or bad cabling causing troubles with all 1541, 1571, 1581 and printers in all combinations and with different frequencies depending on the application. It is even explicitly pointed out in the drive manuals, that you should try to move cabling and drive away from the TV/monitor, check for ground loops, etc.

You just can't blame your problems on a general incompatibility between VIC-20 and 1581. The 1581, as I wrote, uses the standard IEC protocol, possibly a bit faster with somewhat less leeway for communication errors. But nothing that couldn't be handled by a proper setup.

Commodorianen
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Re: 1581 issues (split/OT from: Ultimem or Final Expansion?)

Postby Commodorianen » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:45 am

Mike wrote:The burden of proof is on your side for what matters...


Well. I don't agree with you there but it is ok with me, people can't agree on everything.

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Re: 1581 issues (split/OT from: Ultimem or Final Expansion?)

Postby eslapion » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:51 pm

There is a documented incompatibility between the VIC-20 and the 1581 if you leave the datasette connected.
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