Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

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Judge Drokk
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Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by Judge Drokk »

I'm a long time C64 owner,.. who nearly.. but "not quite" got a Vic20 many times over the years.

Well, ive made up my mind...I'm getting one now!

... ive grabbed a few bits of info.... (basics for those not in the know)

Ive been told that the best one to get is the old one.... 2 pin power..... paper lable.

Ive also seen a really nice "Rainbow label / C64 style sticker" later version with c64 style power pack......

The latter is really clean, very nice looking.....

The older one is unscathed physically, but needs a bit of a clean.

I'm told the older ones are more reliable?

I really dont know which to go for.. Is the older one really better?

Ive got a SD2IEC for my 64... this will also work on the VIC 20..........

Is there anything i should know?

The C64 SD2IEC falls down on Custom Loaders.., and gets complicated when it comes to "multi load" titles.

Are there any pitfalls with using on the Vic20?

A memory expansion is a "must" on the vic i'm told....?

Switchable is the best to go for?
ken
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by ken »

it all depends on if you want to nitpick the tiny things or just want a vic-20
both have the ups and downs but in the real world in real life
it honestly dont matter what one you get
both are great machines
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Judge Drokk
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by Judge Drokk »

I'm told the older model are maybe a little more "built to last".....

the newer ones more "expendable"..

But opinions are like "belly-buttons" i guess.......... everyone has got one!


The newer model i have a chance to pick up (c64 style power pin) is a "Made In England" model...
ken
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by ken »

I would choose the older model over the newer only because of the power supply but its like s 51/49 split.....
I have close to 100 dead vic20s here and its a 50/50 split on the 2 systems , I dont see that 1 is better than the other
but that is up to each person to decide what one they like best
I say get both ;)
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English Invader
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by English Invader »

Judge Drokk wrote:I'm told the older model are maybe a little more "built to last".....

the newer ones more "expendable"..

But opinions are like "belly-buttons" i guess.......... everyone has got one!


The newer model i have a chance to pick up (c64 style power pin) is a "Made In England" model...
That's incorrect. The original model has an internal power supply that generates a lot of heat which may damage carts if you leave them in the machine for too long. It can also be quite tricky to source a power adaptor for the original VIC. The plus side is that IMO the sound and picture quality is a little bit better on the original model.

The second model is just as durable but has the benefit of an external C64 power supply which is a lot easier to source. The downside is that there is a risk of damage to the computer from over-voltage if and when the capacitors on the power supply give up. That risk can be eliminated with a voltage limiter from Ray Carlsen or Skydiving Girl (marketed as the Computer Saver).

No VIC is expendable but, on the whole, I would go for the later model as it's a lot better supported thanks to its compatibility with the C64.
Judge Drokk
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by Judge Drokk »

Is it safe to share a power pack with a C64..?

Or would the C64 power supply overload the Vic?

It is like the one below........

ThanX


Image
ken
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by ken »

the 64 supply can be used on a vic20
only issue is that supply is a timb BOMB and WILL fry the system
it is not if but when , and it will
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English Invader
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by English Invader »

ken wrote:the 64 supply can be used on a vic20
only issue is that supply is a timb BOMB and WILL fry the system
it is not if but when , and it will
As already mentioned, that problem can be remedied with one of these:
http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen/ ... rsions.jpg
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by ken »

I wont argue the fact that a $10 power saver is isnt a good idea
because a $10 power saver is a great idea
just stating a fact that the 64 power supply IS a time bomb
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mrr19121970
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by mrr19121970 »

My route is VICE->MIST-FPGA->REAL VIC (both 9v and CR model)

But to be honest with you I feel more time has been spent on researching and figuring out the best options, how to fix and restoring etc --- which itself is a hobby. I spent more time in getting the VIC 'perfect' than gaming only to have it die on me. I have the Ray Carlson PSU. I've bought/obtained 3x4:3 monitors, 3xVGA convertors, composite cable, 2x TVs, just to get a picture on the screen. I have bought SD2IEC, k3yzs memory expansion, behr-bonz just to play a couple of games.

So to summarize I've spend loads of cash, spend many many hours. Total gametime before death, 20 (maybe 30 mins). I should have just stayed with the emulator or FPGA for the gaming part? Probably. But the restoration is also an enjoyable.

This weekend I'm driving to the UK to collect an Amiga (was boxed in my parents attick since 1991), 2x C64s (1 BNIB, 1 boxed) and a PET keyboard VIC-20 (in original packaging).
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mrr19121970
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by mrr19121970 »

English Invader wrote:It can also be quite tricky to source a power adaptor for the original VIC.
Not really, you can get 2amp 9vAC PSUs meant for the music industry (Rockpower ??) on eBay and Amazon for a tenner. You need to change the connector. Alternatively this guy has 'new old stock' for 11 quid, posted

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262226130898

Original source here
carlsson wrote:In case your local thrift store doesn't have anything suitable, something like these might (YMMV) be good enough to power a two-prong VIC-20:

230VAC input / 9VAC @ 1900 mA output
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262226130898

230-240VAC input / 9VAC @ 2A output
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172060824312

Obviously you still need to fix the connector issue. Of course if you make internal modifications in the VIC, you can replace the connector by something matching your power supply at the same time.

For reference, the original European PSU would've been this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151945760856 (ended auction)

You can buy a cable that seems to match the US connector:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331452747411

Edit: Here are two interesting pages for connector geeks:
https://www.kenselectronics.com/lists/pwrcord.htm
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/powerConn/index.html
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eslapion
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by eslapion »

English Invader wrote:That's incorrect.
I would say the original model really is sturdier... IF you know how to take some precautions.

These include to never obstruct the cartridge port needlessly, never obstruct the venting holes on top of the case. If you can, replace the internal legacy linear regulator with a switching model - this is more tricky.

Replace the large capacitor of the internal PSU with a new one if you still have the old original one.

Also, Commodre originally provided the early VIC-20s with a PSU of 11Vac, replace it with one of 9Vac. Its just an ordinary transformer, really.
The original model has an internal power supply that generates a lot of heat which may damage carts if you leave them in the machine for too long.
I agree; once more I refer to the above mentioned precautions.
It can also be quite tricky to source a power adaptor for the original VIC.
That, however, I strongly disagree. You can build a new power supply with any good transformer rated for 9-11Vac with a capacity of 25-40VA. Pretty large range, very simple components that are extremely durable.
The plus side is that IMO the sound and picture quality is a little bit better on the original model.
Very true. S-Video installed on my old VIC-20 give the finest image I ever saw from a real VIC-20. The presence of a small coil at the right place makes all the difference.
The second model is just as durable but has the benefit of an external C64 power supply which is a lot easier to source. The downside is that there is a risk of damage to the computer from over-voltage if and when the capacitors on the power supply give up. That risk can be eliminated with a voltage limiter from Ray Carlsen or Skydiving Girl (marketed as the Computer Saver).
Same trouble as the C64, should use a new type of PSU with this one OR a computer saver. Its better NOT to use Commodore's original PSU with later generation VIC-20s..
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Mayhem
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by Mayhem »

eslapion wrote:
It can also be quite tricky to source a power adaptor for the original VIC.
That, however, I strongly disagree. You can build a new power supply with any good transformer rated for 9-11Vac with a capacity of 25-40VA. Pretty large range, very simple components that are extremely durable.
To give him due there, I think EI was merely referring to the ability to buy a genuine 2 pin power supply for your Vic20, as opposed to making one yourself. And looking on eBay, that bastion of availability, then there are not many there at all.
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English Invader
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by English Invader »

To cut a long story short for the OP... If you're up for some DIY electronics to gain a system with superior components and better sound and video quality, go for the original model. If you want a simple plug and play solution, go for a later model and an external Computer Saver.
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eslapion
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Re: Best Vic20 to buy Old or new Style..?

Post by eslapion »

English Invader wrote:To cut a long story short for the OP... If you're up for some DIY electronics to gain a system with superior components and better sound and video quality, go for the original model. If you want a simple plug and play solution, go for a later model and an external Computer Saver.
You could say it like that.

WIth one glaring exception...

Since the later model uses an external/C64 compatible PSU, you can use a beefed-up PSU with it and safely connect a huge cartridge port expander with 4-5 slots and a ton of gizmos attached plus other stuff in the userport.

With the early model, you risk busting the internal regulator.
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